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Post by sawandall on Dec 26, 2020 18:08:39 GMT -5
I was given a Homelite XL-12. Ser 44507741. I knew it was old and still had old gas in the tank that looked like varnish. Nasty dirty full of saw dust. I took it apart and clean it up. Put some fuel in it and it started and ran pretty good. Sharpened the chain and cut 5 or 6 logs up. I'm impressed that the saw ran without me having to rebuild the carb. American made tools are awesome. Heavy for it size. My dad had one back in the 70's I think this one was made in 71 or 72 maybe. Can anyone confirm that. Something seems a bit strange about 44507741. So, that's an 8 digit serial number. According to the memo, yes, year would be 1974, but then it would be made on the 450th day of the year...... That can't be. Is it possible the saw has a lot number sticker on it also? As I understand it, a lot sticker trumps a regular serial number tag. Dan Hello, i also have a problem with a saw that lost it's decals. How can i find out about this saw? All i know it was bought in the 70's. Also do you or anyone else know where i can find the actual specifications on the SXL-AO and the XL-12? I need to find some crank seals for both sides but it seems that the RED XL-12 has a seal with number 12282-A and 58308 B but does the old Blue use the same seals or two seals and does the XL-12 have a needle bearing thrust? I get confused on the suggested diagrams for these as there are no way for me to identify the year with the diagrams. Any help? |
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Post by sawandall on Dec 26, 2020 18:12:19 GMT -5
Figuring out build dates on Homelites is somewhat of a struggle. This thread should give you some idea of how to do it as best is known. Homelite did not give out a lot of information but they did publish at least two documents detailing decoding some of the dates from 8 or 9 digit serial numbers. They do not work with 6 or 7 digit serial numbers. They are two versions of pretty much the same procedure however, the second one, DSM 717 from October of 1977 adds an explaination of the Lot number portion of the serial number. This explanation is why some think that when a Lot number is listed by itself on a saw, (without a serial number or just printed separately) it can be decoded the same way it is in this memo. View Attachment View Attachment View Attachment View AttachmentCareful reading of these two will give you the general idea. They are limited to only a partial time frame regarding old Homelite saws. The day of the year number is also referred to as Julian Date. A Julian calendar starts on January 1 with 001 and goes to 365 for New Year's Eve. Of course leap years mess it up a little, so there are two versions of the calendar. A one day error in a 50 or 60 year old saw's birthday may not matter too much to some. Some saws were built in Canada by Terry, they will often have a T in front or in the middle of the serial number, a guess has been made that the T in the middle is a place holder to fill in for the zero that most other serials have. They may have been trying to limit the number digits and realized that they had little chance of building more than 1000 saws a day. If they moved the T from the front of the number to the middle, they could save one digit. That can actually be a cost saver for the record keepers in the front office. Serial numbers with a T and A or B at the beginning indicate a saw that was built by Terry in 1979 or 1980 per the above documents. Notice that in a serial number, the number and letter codes for the dates 1979, 1980, and 1981 overlap using A=9, B=0, C=1. These letter codes have been seen only on Terry saws for '79 and '80 not on saws built in the USA. Joyce Wilson (chainsawlady) and her husband were Homelite dealers for over 50 years, starting in 1951. Joyce kept careful records of every saw they ever sold, including the serial number. That list has been a gold mine of information regarding figuring out at least the year a saw was built. We have not come across an actual saw on the list, but the bracketing of a given saw number by what IS on the list is a great help. The list is too long to include here but if you cannot find what you are looking for in the documents above, put out a call on the forum, someone will likely be able to help. Also, the color of a saw or some other feature might give away the build date, at least the general time frame. As noted below by jerseyhighlander, many carburetors are dated by the manufacturer. If a carb seems to be original (there is of course no guarantee of that) the date on it can give a strong clue, especially when combined with other data, about when a saw was made. The carb would have been built first, then added later to the saw on the assembly line. That means a saw cannot be dated earlier than its original carb. Post pictures of your saw, from several directions and include decals and the serial plate. There are many here on House of Homelite willing to help who have great knowledge. There are few other sources of information on serial numbers but the process of defining them continues to evolve. If you find out something not covered already, please post it, this forum can then save the information for others to use. |
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Post by sawandall on Dec 26, 2020 18:14:13 GMT -5
The below post is by 5terrysupersaws in another thread. I moved it here because it appears to shed some more light on the sn vs build date issue. I did check the the reference and there is no information on where this interpretation came from. "Hi all,just wanted to provide more information on how I decoded my Homelite-Terry saws as they don't follow the standard.Most of the info came from the chainsawcollectors.se forum.RE;Figuring out homelite serial numbers,prior to that to that I was trying to use the normal 8 digit decoding system but 3 of my Terry saws didn't fit.For example Super XL-130 T7900155.What made sense to me was what skywatcher wrote on page 2,"If a chainsaw has a 5 digit UT number and the SN starts with T and the first two digits after T are slightly different from the next 5 digits then this unit was made in Canada by Textron Corp.The two digits after the T is the year of manufacture".Example Leon's Super XL-130 UT# 50136 SN# T8001569 made in 1980 saw number 1569 made that year,XL1-Automatic Type# 10483 SN# T7700505 made in 1977, saw number 505 made that year.Before 1977 the ID tag was metal plate that read Terry Industries with the T in the middle of the SN as on my Super VI-200 sn 5021T461 they were produced during a gray period when even some 8 digit Homelites don't decode well.Example VI-123 on the bay sn 22500254. Best to all." Read more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/6135/homelite-vi123?page=2#ixzz4yKX2dY2gOn checking the above, I found undee70ss's posting of Homelite Service Memo 170 from 9-27-1957 that has some limited information on serial numbers on several saws. This document seems to indicate that individual models might have their own serial number sequences. In any case, there is some data on saws that were in production at the time of the memo. View AttachmentCheck this out too, for saws that don't fit the above. On April 21, 2018 undee70ss said: "The only way to date Homelite 6 and 7 digit serial numbers is with Joyce's sales records, you can get a copy here. Joyces sales recordsOn 5/2/18, undee70ss said in reference to decoding UT numbers, "Use the last year built memo from 1995. The one from 1995 includes the Canadian saws, the other ones don't for some reason." www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/homelite_service_memos_195-001_to_395-001_1995.pdfRead more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/7127/xl-400?page=1#ixzz5ERHUQGaGOn 5/2/18 5terrysupersaws said in reference to decoding Terry sn's, "XL-400 (2227T090) built on Aug. 14 ,1972..90'th unit built that day..similar saw on chainsawlady's records sold in '73" (first digit 1972, next 3 day of year, T for Terry, next three for unit off the assembly line.) Read more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/7127/xl-400#ixzz5ERKRvEaa |
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MC
Collector wannabe
Posts: 19
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Post by MC on Jan 21, 2021 18:44:05 GMT -5
Hello, Picked up another XL-76 and was wondering when it was manufactured? UT 50139 (XL-76) Serial no: T80 04535 Thank you for your time.
Marco
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on Jan 21, 2021 19:08:11 GMT -5
Hello, Picked up another XL-76 and was wondering when it was manufactured? UT 50139 (XL-76) Serial no: T80 04535 Thank you for your time.
Marco
Hi, Marco +UT:50139 ( XL-76 ) SN:T80 04535 ... Manufactured in 1980 . |
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Post by homelitefamily on Feb 4, 2021 23:03:01 GMT -5
So I likewise have a XL-12 that was my father's saw serial number is 44503771. Has a massive fuel leak when turned cutting on it's side. Looking at the catalogs online from Leon's I don't know what is the correct fuel line to order. Should it be the formed line or the tube with grommet? I tried to put a pic of the nameplate but it keeps inverting it everytime no matter what I do. Thanks for any assistance.
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Post by edju1958 on Feb 5, 2021 10:19:56 GMT -5
Have you confirmed that it's the fuel line leaking,or could it be the duck bill in the fuel cap that needs replacing?Also,a bad gasket on the fuel cap will cause it to leak fuel.
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on Feb 5, 2021 15:47:53 GMT -5
So I likewise have a XL-12 that was my father's saw serial number is 44503771. Has a massive fuel leak when turned cutting on it's side. Looking at the catalogs online from Leon's I don't know what is the correct fuel line to order. Should it be the formed line or the tube with grommet? I tried to put a pic of the nameplate but it keeps inverting it everytime no matter what I do. Thanks for any assistance. Welcome to House of Homelite ! XL-12 with Serial Number: 44503771 is a model that was built in the 1975-76 range . Leon's kit: FLS21A will replace fuel lines using a grommet and hose that had the small inlet barb on the carburetor . FLS21B will replace both molded and grommet/hose fuel lines that had the large fuel inlet barb on the carburetor . |
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Post by lesorubcheek on Feb 5, 2021 17:42:23 GMT -5
XL-12 with Serial Number: 44503771 is a model that was built in the 1975-76 range . Probably gonna regret it, but I've gotta ask how this was determined? Sales records? It's an 8 digit sn, so is there any way to know when an 8 digit doesn't follow the rule. Just looking, I'd say this was an invalid number. I asked on a previous one that, if using the formula, would have been built on the 450th day of 1974, just like this one, but no one clarified. My only guess was that maybe a lot number accompanied it, but again, this is just guessing. Just trying to understand since this has me very confused. Dan |
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 203
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Post by okie on Feb 5, 2021 20:12:49 GMT -5
I have some Homies with similar numbers and guy told me awhile back to start removing the last numbers until I could find the first numbers listed.
But by then I finally had already decided that I do not need to know when my old antique vintage Homies and some other stuff was built, I'm just going to use it until it dies anyway or if I need a part I'll cross that bridge later and if I cannot find the part needed it will get replaced with another old saw most likely. (and Homies when I look at a IPL that matches one that I can find the IPL it usually ends up I have to take the Homie apart and check the innards of the saw and see what Homie used when they put this one together, especially the ignition systems, 4 or 5 different ign systems in the same model saw as shown on a IPL.
Some of them Homies:
Reminds me of some of the old Dodge cars, could not go to the parts place and just buy a part for that year and Model, had to take the vec apart and hand carry the old bad part in to the parts counter and have a show and tell and then hope for the best when the order is placed, keep your money in your pocket until you know it's a fit.
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Post by homelitefamily on Feb 6, 2021 11:30:25 GMT -5
XL-12 with Serial Number: 44503771 is a model that was built in the 1975-76 range . Probably gonna regret it, but I've gotta ask how this was determined? Sales records? It's an 8 digit sn, so is there any way to know when an 8 digit doesn't follow the rule. Just looking, I'd say this was an invalid number. I asked on a previous one that, if using the formula, would have been built on the 450th day of 1974, just like this one, but no one clarified. My only guess was that maybe a lot number accompanied it, but again, this is just guessing. Just trying to understand since this has me very confused. Dan Dan, I had taken a look at Chainsawlady's sales records and it matched up with this serial number format which agreed also with 5terrysupersaws as for the year range. I was about 8 years old when I first remember this saw which would have been 1974. It never fails but when I get a chance to set down at a computer to look up and order parts, I'm always out of town on a job and find myself killing time thinking I need to order this or that. I will check when I'm back home to see which hose barb I have so I can get this saw back running. It was my father's saw that I remember early on from being a child standing in the cab of the truck while he would fall trees, then my job was to drag brush until he got it pared down to start loading the truck. He's been gone for almost 10 years and this was his moneymaker and home heat supplier for years, then others in the family used this exact saw until it came home to me several years ago. She's loud but when sharp and on her game she can make the chips fly. Thanks for the info For some cussed reason it flips the picture everytime I load it, no matter what rotation I have on the pic in the first place. Finally after 8 or 9 tries I have the nameplate shown.  Attachments:
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Post by lesorubcheek on Feb 6, 2021 20:13:06 GMT -5
Thanks for showing pics of the saw homelitefamily, and I certainly can believe the saw was from the time stated. I'm still confused though, and I'll try to explain. Here's one of the attachments from sweepleader from the first post in this thread....  OK, so I think there's universal agreement that 6 and 7 digit serials can ONLY be dated based upon sales records. Makes sense, all is good, the sun rises in the east, sets in the west, sugar is sweet, unripe persimmons make ya pucker up.... zero confusion here. Next, enter the 8 (and 9) digit serial numbers, like for instance this latest XL12 being discussed. Looking at the TSB, it sorta implies that since 1972, that EIGHT digit numbers would follow this format. 8 digits would be the case where first digit was the year, next 3 the julian date and last 4 a count of when it was built on that day.
OK, now for the twilight zone.... but, back up just a bit.... first twist has been that if there's a LOT number, then if there's a serial number, it's meaningless, or better to say no one has came up with an explanation what it means in these cases. It likely means something, but so far the crystal ball remains cloudy. OK, got it, it's an exception, the LOT number means all when there is one. A little weird, but OK, great, fine, just go with it. But now back to this one. It's 8 digit. 8 digits are easy right? First digit implies 1974, easy, makes sense, nothing wrong here, but ........there ain't no way it'd be built on the 450th day of the year. OK, so something's not right here....... again, the TSB sorta implies that since 1972, an 8 digit number would follow this rule, yet here's a saw, built 2 years after that, that doesn't follow the rule. And, as far as we can tell, there's no LOT number on the saw to explain the discrepancy.
So, it's stated that the year of this XL12 was determined by sales records, which makes sense, and again, I can believe it and have little doubt you're correct, but how, 2 years after Homelite supposedly was gonna use an 8 digit serial number with this easy to decode format, there's saws out there that are using 8 digits, but they ain't following the format? Does this mean there are some 8 digit numbers that simply don't follow the rules of the TSB, even if they don't have a LOT number (which makes the 8 digit number meaningless)? This is where I just ain't getting it. It just ain't adding up. Am I just so stupid and I'm missing something obvious, or is everyone else as confused as me?
Dan
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Post by ronaldt on Feb 6, 2021 20:31:19 GMT -5
Don't feel bad Dan. This stuff has always confused me. That's why I continue to ask for help dating a 8 or 9 digit saw. For me, the old 6 and 7 digit serial numbers are easier because I can look at Joyce's records (bless her) and get a good approximation.
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Post by lesorubcheek on Feb 7, 2021 19:42:24 GMT -5
Don't feel bad Dan. This stuff has always confused me. That's why I continue to ask for help dating a 8 or 9 digit saw. For me, the old 6 and 7 digit serial numbers are easier because I can look at Joyce's records (bless her) and get a good approximation. Thanks Ronald, I don't feel alone anymore. Certainly agree with you regarding the 6/7 digit numbers, there's no weird stuff with those, at least not yet. And yes, thank you and bless you Joyce! Come on everybody else around here..... does anyone have any insight regarding this anomaly with the 8 digit that doesn't fit the format? Dan |
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Post by homelitefamily on Feb 8, 2021 11:15:05 GMT -5
Have you confirmed that it's the fuel line leaking,or could it be the duck bill in the fuel cap that needs replacing?Also,a bad gasket on the fuel cap will cause it to leak fuel. Hello Ed, Yes, I have confirmed the leak is coming from the fuel line area; it's pouring out from where the hose goes into the outer tank cover. It appears the line has been replaced and the grommet is not there. Thanks for the input though, I have replaced the cap and gasket on the Super EZ from my father-in-law due to it had a slow leak out the cap.  |
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 203
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Post by okie on Feb 8, 2021 11:32:48 GMT -5
You say:
I have confirmed the leak is coming from the fuel line area; it's pouring out from where the hose goes into the outer tank cover. It appears the line has been replaced and the grommet is not there.
I bought a reasonably priced kit of tygon tubing all different sizes awhile back, think it came from Amazon and it's really handy for replacing fuel lines.
I found a tygon size in the kit that was a good tight fit on a EZ tank and did not have to go shopping for the EZ grommet fuel line. I've also done this same procedure on other saws. The kit is really handy, think the different sizes were about 2 ft long and about 6 sizes. (and the tygon is a good grade of tygon)
Napa in this area will sell tygon from a spool priced per ft but it's high and have to know the proper size needed and go to the store for show and tell.
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Post by sweepleader on Feb 8, 2021 11:57:57 GMT -5
Please guys, this board is about dates, take your discussion of fuel leaks and lines somewhere else where it belongs. Thanks.
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Post by lesorubcheek on Feb 8, 2021 21:48:30 GMT -5
Those crickets are getting pretty loud..... come on, someone tell me I'm crazy or that you agree that something is very odd about an 8 digit serial that doesn't fit the mold. Please accept my apologies for being ocd about this, but it's part of a software developers nature to obsess over exceptional cases. Remember, I did the java program to do the date lookup, and here we have a case that blows up. I just wanna understand and fix it.
Dan
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Post by sweepleader on Feb 9, 2021 20:19:29 GMT -5
I don't have any information on exactly when the numbers go bad but there seems to be a period where like the above number, they do not make sense when decoded. It would appear that you know as much about this situation as any of the rest of us.
Maybe you could start a page like 5terrysupersaws did only record serial numbers and whatever dates we can associate with them, through lot numbers or Joyce's list. Maybe after a few entries a pattern would emerge as to the time frame they fit into. Anyone who had one could post it on the page and the list would fill in with time.
Good luck, thanks for volunteering to do this, it will be a lot of work. :{)
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Post by lesorubcheek on Feb 9, 2021 20:30:48 GMT -5
LOL, just like being at work.... complain about a problem and get voluteered to fix it.
I'm just happy that I ain't went crazy and this is a real oddity, not a delusion. Well, OK, not crazy regarding this anyways.
Dan |
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