|
|
Post by sweepleader on Nov 12, 2017 11:32:15 GMT -5
Figuring out build dates on Homelites is somewhat of a struggle. This thread should give you some idea of how to do it as best is known. Homelite did not give out a lot of information but they did publish at least two documents detailing decoding some of the dates from 8 or 9 digit serial numbers. They do not work with 6 or 7 digit serial numbers. They are two versions of pretty much the same procedure however, the second one, DSM 717 from October of 1977 adds an explaination of the Lot number portion of the serial number. This explanation is why some think that when a Lot number is listed by itself on a saw, (without a serial number or just printed separately) it can be decoded the same way it is in this memo.     Careful reading of these two will give you the general idea. They are limited to only a partial time frame regarding old Homelite saws. The day of the year number is also referred to as Julian Date. A Julian calendar starts on January 1 with 001 and goes to 365 for New Year's Eve. Of course leap years mess it up a little, so there are two versions of the calendar. A one day error in a 50 or 60 year old saw's birthday may not matter too much to some. Some saws were built in Canada by Terry, they will often have a T in front or in the middle of the serial number, a guess has been made that the T in the middle is a place holder to fill in for the zero that most other serials have. They may have been trying to limit the number digits and realized that they had little chance of building more than 1000 saws a day. If they moved the T from the front of the number to the middle, they could save one digit. That can actually be a cost saver for the record keepers in the front office. Serial numbers with a T and A or B at the beginning indicate a saw that was built by Terry in 1979 or 1980 per the above documents. Notice that in a serial number, the number and letter codes for the dates 1979, 1980, and 1981 overlap using A=9, B=0, C=1. These letter codes have been seen only on Terry saws for '79 and '80 not on saws built in the USA. Joyce Wilson (chainsawlady) and her husband were Homelite dealers for over 50 years, starting in 1951. Joyce kept careful records of every saw they ever sold, including the serial number. That list has been a gold mine of information regarding figuring out at least the year a saw was built. We have not come across an actual saw on the list, but the bracketing of a given saw number by what IS on the list is a great help. The list is too long to include here but if you cannot find what you are looking for in the documents above, put out a call on the forum, someone will likely be able to help. Also, the color of a saw or some other feature might give away the build date, at least the general time frame. As noted below by jerseyhighlander, many carburetors are dated by the manufacturer. If a carb seems to be original (there is of course no guarantee of that) the date on it can give a strong clue, especially when combined with other data, about when a saw was made. The carb would have been built first, then added later to the saw on the assembly line. That means a saw cannot be dated earlier than its original carb. Post pictures of your saw, from several directions and include decals and the serial plate. There are many here on House of Homelite willing to help who have great knowledge. There are few other sources of information on serial numbers but the process of defining them continues to evolve. If you find out something not covered already, please post it, this forum can then save the information for others to use. |
|
|
|
Post by sweepleader on Nov 13, 2017 12:16:57 GMT -5
The below post is by 5terrysupersaws in another thread. I moved it here because it appears to shed some more light on the sn vs build date issue. I did check the the reference and there is no information on where this interpretation came from. "Hi all,just wanted to provide more information on how I decoded my Homelite-Terry saws as they don't follow the standard.Most of the info came from the chainsawcollectors.se forum.RE;Figuring out homelite serial numbers,prior to that to that I was trying to use the normal 8 digit decoding system but 3 of my Terry saws didn't fit.For example Super XL-130 T7900155.What made sense to me was what skywatcher wrote on page 2,"If a chainsaw has a 5 digit UT number and the SN starts with T and the first two digits after T are slightly different from the next 5 digits then this unit was made in Canada by Textron Corp.The two digits after the T is the year of manufacture".Example Leon's Super XL-130 UT# 50136 SN# T8001569 made in 1980 saw number 1569 made that year,XL1-Automatic Type# 10483 SN# T7700505 made in 1977, saw number 505 made that year.Before 1977 the ID tag was metal plate that read Terry Industries with the T in the middle of the SN as on my Super VI-200 sn 5021T461 they were produced during a gray period when even some 8 digit Homelites don't decode well.Example VI-123 on the bay sn 22500254. Best to all." Read more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/6135/homelite-vi123?page=2#ixzz4yKX2dY2gOn checking the above, I found undee70ss's posting of Homelite Service Memo 170 from 9-27-1957 that has some limited information on serial numbers on several saws. This document seems to indicate that individual models might have their own serial number sequences. In any case, there is some data on saws that were in production at the time of the memo. Service Memo 170_1957.pdf (344 KB) Check this out too, for saws that don't fit the above. On April 21, 2018 undee70ss said: "The only way to date Homelite 6 and 7 digit serial numbers is with Joyce's sales records, you can get a copy here. Joyces sales recordsOn 5/2/18, undee70ss said in reference to decoding UT numbers, "Use the last year built memo from 1995. The one from 1995 includes the Canadian saws, the other ones don't for some reason." www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/homelite_service_memos_195-001_to_395-001_1995.pdfRead more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/7127/xl-400?page=1#ixzz5ERHUQGaGOn 5/2/18 5terrysupersaws said in reference to decoding Terry sn's, "XL-400 (2227T090) built on Aug. 14 ,1972..90'th unit built that day..similar saw on chainsawlady's records sold in '73" (first digit 1972, next 3 day of year, T for Terry, next three for unit off the assembly line.) Read more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/7127/xl-400#ixzz5ERKRvEaa |
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhighlander on Nov 15, 2017 23:52:31 GMT -5
I was cruising through youtube trying to decompress the accumulated stress of the past few days and noticed a blue Super XL Auto not dissimilar from the one I just got. Of course the video turned out to be Leon's...  well done as always. But something caught my attention. Leon said the saw was a 1971 and he was surprised they were still making the blue XL's then. My blue XL is, as far as I'm told here, a 1972. But when Leon zoomed in on the data tag with the serial number it is a very different tag than mine and in a completely different location. Leon's a metal plate riveted in place and mine more of a sticker. I'm still figuring out that there were a least a few different factories at this point in time./? But thought the style and placement of the data tag itself could be a factor in helping to figure out when/where these were made. Possibly worth starting to catalog them? A screen shot from Leon's youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkTk6b0IfQM showing the tag just below the on/off switch. And my tag up on the right side over the muffler.   O |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2017 23:58:20 GMT -5
I was cruising through youtube trying to decompress the accumulated stress of the past few days and noticed a blue Super XL Auto not dissimilar from the one I just got. Of course the video turned out to be Leon's... well done as always. But something caught my attention. Leon said the saw was a 1971 and he was surprised they were still making the blue XL's then. My blue XL is, as far as I'm told here, a 1972. But when Leon zoomed in on the data tag with the serial number it is a very different tag than mine and in a completely different location. Leon's a metal plate riveted in place and mine more of a sticker. I'm still figuring out that there were a least a few different factories at this point in time./? But thought the style and placement of the data tag itself could be a factor in helping to figure out when/where these were made. Possibly worth starting to catalog them? A screen shot from Leon's youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkTk6b0IfQM showing the tag just below the on/off switch. And my tag up on the right side over the muffler. His is a 1971 and yours is a 1973. In 1973 I believe they started using the stickers and in 1974 I believe they went to red enamel and 9 digit. My 1972 is a 8 digit metal tag and my 1968 is a 7 digit metal tag |
|
|
|
Post by onlyhomelites on Nov 16, 2017 1:08:04 GMT -5
I was always under the impression that the Super XL's switched to the red/black paint scheme around 71 or 72, but the past year has taught me different. I've seen multiple 1973 saws still in the blue & white.
Good info on the tag switching dates!
|
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhighlander on Nov 16, 2017 1:18:58 GMT -5
I was cruising through youtube trying to decompress the accumulated stress of the past few days and noticed a blue Super XL Auto not dissimilar from the one I just got. Of course the video turned out to be Leon's... well done as always. But something caught my attention. Leon said the saw was a 1971 and he was surprised they were still making the blue XL's then. My blue XL is, as far as I'm told here, a 1972. But when Leon zoomed in on the data tag with the serial number it is a very different tag than mine and in a completely different location. Leon's a metal plate riveted in place and mine more of a sticker. I'm still figuring out that there were a least a few different factories at this point in time./? But thought the style and placement of the data tag itself could be a factor in helping to figure out when/where these were made. Possibly worth starting to catalog them? A screen shot from Leon's youtube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkTk6b0IfQM showing the tag just below the on/off switch. And my tag up on the right side over the muffler. His is a 1971 and yours is a 1973. In 1973 I believe they started using the stickers and in 1974 I believe they went to red enamel and 9 digit. My 1972 is a 8 digit metal tag and my 1968 is a 7 digit metal tag Would this be specific to just the Super XL or XL's in general or is this across the spectrum of all the saws? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 8:54:25 GMT -5
His is a 1971 and yours is a 1973. In 1973 I believe they started using the stickers and in 1974 I believe they went to red enamel and 9 digit. My 1972 is a 8 digit metal tag and my 1968 is a 7 digit metal tag Would this be specific to just the Super XL or XL's in general or is this across the spectrum of all the saws? I would say the Super XL's, Super XL-12's and XL-12 were on the same course, but I don't know about other lines, like the XL-100 series as to when they switched to red and I'm not sure it was the same for all 100 series, but it does seem that early XL-101/XL-102's were blue, however I think some of the 100 series were phased out and the numbers changed around 1973 as well. I do think they made 100 series saws in red before 1973 though. Also later C series and Super Wiz saws had their own color and ID tag particulars not the same as XL series from the start. This is ll conjecture and observation from looking at what we believe to be mostly accurate info at Mike Acres Site. |
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhighlander on Nov 16, 2017 9:54:31 GMT -5
So, now to maybe throw some confusion on the fire. Trying to figure out how any of this might refer to the Super 2. The Super XL & Super 2 being the only models I have any experience with right now...
I have two Super 2's - Going to break them up for organization purposes but a couple general things first.
I had posted in another thread that both having Walbro carbs, I had taken them out recently, and noticed numbers stamped in both that I'm fairly certain are month/year and potentially a great way to cross reference age indicators.
Both have stickers for data plates but a little different.
The earlier saw;
Lot No. G6344
Serial No. 45581376 (8 digits)
The carb on this saw is stamped with 11/76. Which matches the 76 at the end of the serial No. 1976 would be the first year introduced according to the Acres site, though it also lists the case as being plastic which is likely a typo. Mine is definitely magnesium.
It is a points/condenser ignition.
Color is red. (I've never seen a blue Super 2)
This is the saw I had posted in another section that has the odd snap ring holding the clutch plate/sprocket on.
The later saw;
Has a UT No. instead of Lot No. - 10520A
Serial No. 7E2781207 - According to the TSB posted above by Sweepleader, the E would be 1983.
The Carb on this saw is stamped with 9/83 (Good match to the Serial No.)
The Acres site list this as discontinued in 1982... There is a second Super 2 listed there with almost no information but has the year introduced at 1991
Color is also red and the case is still magnesium.
This one has an ignition module instead of points/condenser.
The shaft on this one has the threaded end with a nut holding the clutch plate/sprocket on.
|
|
|
|
Post by onlyhomelites on Nov 16, 2017 10:38:36 GMT -5
The Acres site list this as discontinued in 1982... There is a second Super 2 listed there with almost no information but has the year introduced at 1991 Color is also red and the case is still magnesium. This one has an ignition module instead of points/condenser. The shaft on this one has the threaded end with a nut holding the clutch plate/sprocket on. You've found one of the areas of Mike Acre's site that has the most problems. The magnesium twin trigger Super 2 went through 1985 based on the saws I have seen. The plastic version that dropped to a single trigger, but otherwise looks the same was 1986 to around 1991. 1991 would have been where the design changed to the half-ass a/v plastic housing that they stuck with until the model was discontinued. Page 26 of the 1985 Dealer Service Memo's details the first engine housing changeover: www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/185-001_to_185-020_1985.pdf |
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhighlander on Nov 16, 2017 20:31:31 GMT -5
The Acres site list this as discontinued in 1982... There is a second Super 2 listed there with almost no information but has the year introduced at 1991 Color is also red and the case is still magnesium. This one has an ignition module instead of points/condenser. The shaft on this one has the threaded end with a nut holding the clutch plate/sprocket on. You've found one of the areas of Mike Acre's site that has the most problems. The magnesium twin trigger Super 2 went through 1985 based on the saws I have seen. The plastic version that dropped to a single trigger, but otherwise looks the same was 1986 to around 1991. 1991 would have been where the design changed to the half-ass a/v plastic housing that they stuck with until the model was discontinued. Page 26 of the 1985 Dealer Service Memo's details the first engine housing changeover: www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/185-001_to_185-020_1985.pdfLot's of good information on Mr. Acre's site but yes, it is a bit weak in the Super 2 domain. I guess they just aren't as cool as the zip and the 5-30n's and all. I know I'm going to smack myself when somebody answers this but, what is the SL in Super2SL and other SL saws? |
|
|
|
Post by Clasec on Nov 16, 2017 21:06:17 GMT -5
You've found one of the areas of Mike Acre's site that has the most problems. The magnesium twin trigger Super 2 went through 1985 based on the saws I have seen. The plastic version that dropped to a single trigger, but otherwise looks the same was 1986 to around 1991. 1991 would have been where the design changed to the half-ass a/v plastic housing that they stuck with until the model was discontinued. Page 26 of the 1985 Dealer Service Memo's details the first engine housing changeover: www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/185-001_to_185-020_1985.pdfLot's of good information on Mr. Acre's site but yes, it is a bit weak in the Super 2 domain. I guess they just aren't as cool as the zip and the 5-30n's and all. I know I'm going to smack myself when somebody answers this but, what is the SL in Super2SL and other SL saws? SL means safety lever for the chain brake. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 22:09:14 GMT -5
Lot's of good information on Mr. Acre's site but yes, it is a bit weak in the Super 2 domain. I guess they just aren't as cool as the zip and the 5-30n's and all. I know I'm going to smack myself when somebody answers this but, what is the SL in Super2SL and other SL saws? SL means safety lever for the chain brake. My 1980 Super Mini SL has an odd looking Safety Lever and chain brake houseofhomelite.proboards.com/attachment/download/1163 |
|
|
|
Post by sweepleader on Nov 29, 2017 10:04:18 GMT -5
Here is an email exchange I had with Mike Acres regarding the dates he has on his site. www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/GasbyManufacturer?OpenView&Start=30&Count=30&Expand=53#53It really does not help with dating a saw but it gives a little insight toward understanding what gives there. Mike has the very best interests toward the chainsaw community, and a terrific site but his sources have dried up. Please do not berate him if his dates are suspect. If you know for certain of a correction, send it to him with your source, he is happy to fix errors. It appears from his answer his dates are what Homelite published at some time, he does not mention any other source. I think that fits well with some instances that have been mentioned on House of Homelite where the dates actually on saws do not match exactly with published data from Homelite. On 03/11/2017 2:15 PM, Dan wrote: Hi Mike, Love your site, terrific reference. I am wondering how you have come up with the dates you post on your saw pages. I imagine that some come one at a time from someone who recalls but I would think that you have also found a source from Homelite that lists various saws. Is that true? Is that available somewhere? Thanks so much, you really hold the old chainsaw community together. Dan Mike's response to my question (note the time lag, March to November, Mike seems to answer everyone sometime): 11/27/2017
Hi:
Any place I have a date it has been from either Homelite service information in their master manual or from a list (not complete) supplied by Homelite themselves.
The list I got was 10 years ago and that source is long gone.
MikeAfter considering the above exchange, it occurred to me that Mike may have used the Homelite memo referred to above for his dates. Even the memo is not 100% perfect, but it is Homelite: On 5/2/18, undee70ss said in reference to decoding UT numbers, "Use the last year built memo from 1995. The one from 1995 includes the Canadian saws, the other ones don't for some reason." www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/homelite_service_memos_195-001_to_395-001_1995.pdfRead more: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/6140/figuring-out-when-homelite-built#ixzz5EROpngej |
|
|
|
Post by svk on Mar 11, 2018 20:43:35 GMT -5
One of my SXL’s only had UT and Lot number. Is there a separate serial number somewhere else on the saw?
|
|
|
|
Post by onlyhomelites on Mar 11, 2018 23:04:27 GMT -5
Nope, you've go one of those mid 70's saws that likes to be confusing!
|
|
|
|
Post by undee70ss on Mar 11, 2018 23:12:18 GMT -5
From around 1973/1974 till late 1977, Homelite didn’t use serial numbers on all their saws.
|
|
|
|
Post by beefyjay on Jun 11, 2018 17:14:16 GMT -5
Hi all,
What do you think about serial number 1819204 ?
I just bought it, all I knew before I picked it up was that it's a Homelite XL Auto and it runs. I got home with it and tried finding a user's manual online so that I can verify the fuel/oil mixture and whatnot since I've never owned a chainsaw before. Well, it turns out there's something to dating these cool old chainsaws and I stumbled on this thread. I can't find a decoder that applies to this 7 digit serial number. The only thing that comes close is Joyce's records; 18XXXXX numbers were sold in 1965, but it's hard to believe this chainsaw that runs perfectly fine is really that old.
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated!
|
|
|
|
Post by sweepleader on Jun 11, 2018 17:58:15 GMT -5
If it is an XL Automatic, it is from 1965. That saw was only made one year, and maybe a couple months. The XL-500 is the same way as are some other Homelites.
There is no way to decode the early serial numbers, none that has been published or noted on this forum anyway. That is what makes Joyce's records so valuable. She really did us all a service. There are other things on certain models, colors, decals, design detail, that can help establish dates.
I run all my old saws at 40:1 with modern air cooled 2 cycle oil, there are several threads on the forum discussing oil and ratios, check around. Some run 80:1 with synthetic oils.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 18:56:27 GMT -5
If it is an XL Automatic, it is from 1965. That saw was only made one year, and maybe a couple months. The XL-500 is the same way as are some other Homelites. There is no way to decode the early serial numbers, none that has been published or noted on this forum anyway. That is what makes Joyce's records so valuable. She really did us all a service. There are other things on certain models, colors, decals, design detail, that can help establish dates. I run all my old saws at 40:1 with modern air cooled 2 cycle oil, there are several threads on the forum discussing oil and ratios, check around. Some run 80:1 with synthetic oils. I question whether the the XL Auto was a one year saw, because the serial numbers on those one year saws seem to run from around 17xxxxx to close to 24xxxxx on Port Chester built saws. It would seem that either they made many, many thousands or the serial numbers were sequentially given out to all saws built each day. I just don't see that same variance in numbers on other models though. I do know Homelite/Terry built them up into the 1970's in the same design and color. |
|
|
|
Post by kysawman on Jun 11, 2018 19:03:46 GMT -5
If it is an XL Automatic, it is from 1965. That saw was only made one year, and maybe a couple months. The XL-500 is the same way as are some other Homelites. There is no way to decode the early serial numbers, none that has been published or noted on this forum anyway. That is what makes Joyce's records so valuable. She really did us all a service. There are other things on certain models, colors, decals, design detail, that can help establish dates. I run all my old saws at 40:1 with modern air cooled 2 cycle oil, there are several threads on the forum discussing oil and ratios, check around. Some run 80:1 with synthetic oils. I question whether the the XL Auto was a one year saw, because the serial numbers on those one year saws seem to run from around 17xxxxx to close to 24xxxxx on Port Chester built saws. It would seem that either they made many, many thousands or the serial numbers were sequentially given out to all saws built each day. I just don't see that same variance in numbers on other models though. I do know Homelite/Terry built them up into the 1970's in the same design and color. Good point on the XL Automatic, my buddy has one that has the short plug, metal fuel line down the side of the tank, so it points to early 65 , mine is later serial and has regular plug and molded rubber line in the top of tank. |
|
well done as always. But something caught my attention. Leon said the saw was a 1971 and he was surprised they were still making the blue XL's then. My blue XL is, as far as I'm told here, a 1972. But when Leon zoomed in on the data tag with the serial number it is a very different tag than mine and in a completely different location. Leon's a metal plate riveted in place and mine more of a sticker. I'm still figuring out that there were a least a few different factories at this point in time./? But thought the style and placement of the data tag itself could be a factor in helping to figure out when/where these were made. Possibly worth starting to catalog them? 
