dann757
Collector wannabe
Posts: 11
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Post by dann757 on Jan 28, 2021 12:18:35 GMT -5
I got a recent obsession with my old XL 2 Auto I put away 20 years ago. That saw helped me gather firewood for 3 years until it stopped working. Thanks to Leon's, I got the carb rebuilt and it runs well. I also went through the oiling system, thanks to Leon's manuals, parts diagrams and parts. I think the last thing that is preventing the oiling is the notorious and super rare plunger/diaphragm. It's just too stiff. I think the part could be carefully rebuilt. The plunger pin end has a mushroomed over rivet-type situation. I think it could be worked and new diaphragm material used! If I could find a source. I found an Ebay seller in the UK and sent for a sheet. He cancelled the order, disappointing. I'd like to know what the thickness of the material is too. I put the saw back together for now, and have the feeling of being defeated in battle. I think I have the lines correct, I withdrew the hard fitting line to look and possibly replace the innards, the inner pump check ball and spring are functioning. Thanks for any advice or a source of diaphragm material!  XL 2
XL 2 AutoOn the bench |
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Post by charles on Jan 28, 2021 15:30:32 GMT -5
If you are located in the US , try looking at McMaster-Carr . They have a large selection of different "rubber" compounds .
Charles
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Post by ken8831200 on Jan 28, 2021 19:53:55 GMT -5
If you are located in the US , try looking at McMaster-Carr . They have a large selection of different "rubber" compounds . Charles I just looked at Mcmaster-Carr and seems the thinnest they show is 1/32 inch thick. Not sure as it's been a long time since I had mine apart but that sounds too thick! |
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Post by Clasec on Jan 28, 2021 21:24:24 GMT -5
If you are located in the US , try looking at McMaster-Carr . They have a large selection of different "rubber" compounds . Charles I just looked at Mcmaster-Carr and seems the thinnest they show is 1/32 inch thick. Not sure as it's been a long time since I had mine apart but that sounds too thick! I measured a NOS one and they are .025 thick.  Diaphragm thickness by Clasec, on Flickr |
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Post by Clasec on Jan 28, 2021 21:32:48 GMT -5
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Post by ken8831200 on Jan 29, 2021 9:49:03 GMT -5
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Post by edju1958 on Jan 29, 2021 10:19:03 GMT -5
The oil pump plunger that Classec gave you a link to looks identical to the one used in the 450.
You might want to try giving Bob Johnson a call at 607-638-9297.He is constantly buying out old distributorships (not dealerships) & getting NOS parts in all the time.He bought out a distributorship last summer & is still putting the parts away.
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Post by Clasec on Jan 29, 2021 11:23:04 GMT -5
The oil pump plunger that Classec gave you a link to looks identical to the one used in the 450.
You might want to try giving Bob Johnson a call at 607-638-9297.He is constantly buying out old distributorships (not dealerships) & getting NOS parts in all the time.He bought out a distributorship last summer & is still putting the parts away.
The plunger kit I gave the link to is for a Super 2. The 450/550 plunger is larger and the material is thinner. Here is some more info. houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/3240/super-2-oiler-on-carb |
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dann757
Collector wannabe
Posts: 11
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Post by dann757 on Jan 29, 2021 11:24:17 GMT -5
Thanks everybody for fast replies! I contacted the Ebay guy, asked if the NOS plunger diaphragm is still flexible. Haven't heard from the UK guy, he supposedly had .3,.4,.5 mm material. .025" is .635 mm, so thanks for narrowing that down for me. I have 2 old Mac Timber Bears that I was able to restore and use. I have a Mac Eager Beaver I took off the street, that is running well after some restoration. Also have a Mac 3200 that has me beat, good compression, spark outside the combustion chamber at least, new plug, rebuilt carb, it won't say a word. Maybe I should stick to simple hobbies, I just restored an Atha farrier's hammer, ca. 1900. lol thanks again! Atha |
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Post by Mr_Huns on Jan 30, 2021 0:18:53 GMT -5
I recommend ND-1625 in 0.025 gauge www.alphainc.com/en/products/fairprene/This is the datasheet: www.alphainc.com/pdf/Data_Sheet/ND-1625.pdfI requested a sample from the company and asked them how to purchase product. If someone could come up with a reasonable 2D engineering drawing of the diaphragm, we could probably 3D print a die to cut them and use some thing sheet metal, like HVAC duct, for the cutting surface. All this is only if the company will sell to us..... |
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Post by ken8831200 on Jan 30, 2021 7:39:08 GMT -5
I recommend ND-1625 in 0.025 gauge www.alphainc.com/en/products/fairprene/This is the datasheet: www.alphainc.com/pdf/Data_Sheet/ND-1625.pdfI requested a sample from the company and asked them how to purchase product. If someone could come up with a reasonable 2D engineering drawing of the diaphragm, we could probably 3D print a die to cut them and use some thing sheet metal, like HVAC duct, for the cutting surface. All this is only if the company will sell to us..... If they won't sell direct to you maybe they could give you the name of someone they do sell it to? I'd bet that someone who buys it from them has a trash can with enough in to fix all the saws out there! |
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Post by Mr_Huns on Feb 4, 2021 20:34:18 GMT -5
Just a quick update.
I have not heard back from Alpha Inc. I just sent an email to a company in NY called Allstate Gasket. I asked them if they distribute the Fairprene material, or if they could recommend an alternative.
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Post by Mr_Huns on Feb 9, 2021 8:00:09 GMT -5
Good news! A gentleman named Tim Barnshaw reached out to me from Alpha Inc. The product I referenced is discontinued. He recommended a suitable replacement. He called it BN-5039 (B5N2) and told me to find it on the website, Fairprene.com. I will attach the datasheet. I could not find it on the website. Unfortunately, he stated a normal production order has a minimum of 200 linear yards on a 54" wide roll. If we needed 100 diaphragms, 4" square, that is about 2.4 yards. He claimed that we may be able to get an off cut from someone else's production run, for a premium. I responded to say thank you and asked about the roll price, off cut price for 2 yards, and the lead time for each. How many do you think we want to make? Do you think this material is suitable for other diaphragms? BN-5039.pdf (274.5 KB) |
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Post by fossil on Feb 9, 2021 12:04:53 GMT -5
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Post by Mr_Huns on Feb 9, 2021 17:21:52 GMT -5
Great!
Thanks,
It says they are a distributor for Fairprene brand material.
I requested a quote for the BN-5039 material
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Post by Mr_Huns on Feb 9, 2021 19:41:45 GMT -5
OK, That was very quick. A gentleman named Kyle reached out to me with pricing!  Fairprene by MR Huns, on Flickr This was today pricing. 1 linear yard will make about 12 square feet and a probably 5 inch strip 3 ft long. It looks like the pricing would be about $15 square ft + shipping if we have interest.  Screenshot from 2021-02-09 19-38-22 by MR Huns, on Flickr Did anyone come up with an engineering drawing for the diaphragm yet? |
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dann757
Collector wannabe
Posts: 11
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Post by dann757 on Feb 13, 2021 19:30:56 GMT -5
Thanks guys for all the replies. The old XL 2 Auto has sentimental value, and now I just want to emerge victorious. I found a place called equalseal.com. They sold me a strip of 1/32" buna-N rubber. I fabricated the plunger today, retrofit actually. I was able to grind off the knurled over top of the plunger and coax the retaining washer off. The diaphragm is sandwiched between 2 cupped washers. I also considered using a typical 2 cycle carb needle diaphragm! One could have been sandwiched between the gaskets. I traced the old diaphragm holes and sandwiched the rubber between plywood pieces to try and get good holes. I don't have gasket punches that small! The plunger shaft seems to be 2mm. I believe a full custom replacement could be fabricated, I had a pop rivet pin that is 2mm, and possibly a 2mm drill bit could be used, but it's necessary to peen over the top to retain some kind of washers to hold the diaphragm fast. I have the saw back together but I'll start it tomorrow when I'm not tired from all this tinkering. This material is quite flexible, so only a test run will tell. I just want to see bar oil coming out! Thanks again for the input! apart again
drilling the holesstaking the pieceready to install |
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dann757
Collector wannabe
Posts: 11
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Post by dann757 on Feb 14, 2021 11:36:27 GMT -5
2/14 - Unfortunately my XL 2 Auto aint got no auto. It's not pumping oil, and bar oil is definitely getting sucked into the crankcase. It's making the saw smoke. I used regular 10w-30 oil as bar oil, I don't think that's the issue. All new lines and duckbill valves, I have a new oiler piece that the plunger goes into, and the ball, I guess the next thing would be to try and replace that press fit setup. I tested the action of the check ball and spring, it was functioning correctly. I must be missing something.
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Post by rowdy235 on Feb 14, 2021 22:02:39 GMT -5
Have you verified the lines are routed properly?
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dann757
Collector wannabe
Posts: 11
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Post by dann757 on Feb 15, 2021 0:50:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. I had NOT verified. I emailed Leon, he is a stand up guy. He mentioned that. My lines were definitely reversed! I can take the saw apart in 5 minutes I've done it so much. It's back together and I will fire it up tomorrow, too late tonight! Lines corrected |
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