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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 17:14:57 GMT -5
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I recently bought a 450 on ebay.I knew it was a gamble when I bought it.Shortly after getting the saw I noticed that the previous owner had a Stihl bar on it,which told me that it wasn't getting oil on the chain properly,so I bought a new Homelite 30 in.bar & chain from a gentleman from Ky(he is a heck of a nice guy).I found this on a Craig's list post when I did a search on the PC.I had to mix some 32:1 gas & sure enough the saw fired right up & it runs like it should.The only problem is,after putting in some 10-40 oil (new) in the oil tank nothing happened with either the automatic or the manual oilers.I'm thinking that the screen on the oiler intake is probably plugged from yrs.of sawdust & other crap getting into the oil tank.If I drain the oil out & spray either some WD-40 or PB Blaster into the tank & swish it around real good,it might loosen the sludge that's blocking the screen.Are there any thoughts from anyone if this is a good idea,or might there be others problems?
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Post by lesorubcheek on Dec 25, 2017 17:48:38 GMT -5
Merry Christmas! I've soaked parts in WD-40 without problems, and don't imagine PB Blaster would harm rubber hose or anything else in there either. Here's an excerpt from the Homelite repair manual for 450/550 oil problems in the case of neither auto or manual pumps working. Maybe it'll help.
"Be sure oil tank is filled with proper oil. Operate manual oil pump. If manual oil pump operates freely, check for blocked oil pickup strainers and improperly positioned pickup lines. Reinstall oil tank cap, but do not tighten. Operate both oil pumps. If pumps work satisfactorily, then renew oil tank cap as it is not venting properly. If manual oil pump builds pressure when operated so that plunger will not depress, then there is blockage at some point in output passage. Disconnect manual oil pump outlet line from manual pump fitting and operate both pumps. Manual pump should force oil from outlet fitting while auto pump should force oil from loose end of outlet line. Remove automatic oil pump body (4 -Fig. HL287) and disconnect manual pump outlet line from crankcase fitting. Blow air into guide bar pad oil outlet to possibly blow blocking material through pump body or through manual pump delivery passage. If blockage will not blow free, then crankcase must be removed to clean passages in engine."
Dan
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Post by undee70ss on Dec 27, 2017 4:01:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 16:50:29 GMT -5
I tried to clear the line by disconnecting the oil supply line from the manual oiler & blowing air through the line.I also pulled the oil line out of the tank with the sump screen attached to it.I pulled off the sump screen & tried to blow through it after disconnecting it from the oil line. - it seemed to be plugged after I'd disconnected it.I noticed that the sump screen pulled out of the oil line fairly easily & noticed that the oil line was bulged at the end,so I cut it with a diagonal pliers & reassembled it.I put the line back into the tank which I had sprayed with WD-40 to loosen any crud that might've blocked the sump screen.I then fired up the saw & tried the manual oiler again.I still have the same problem - it wants to pump oil,but it pumps very little oil along with a lot of air bubbles as well.Might I have a cracked line somewhere not visible?Is this going to require tearing down the entire saw?
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 27, 2017 18:37:31 GMT -5
It sounds like you reinstalled the bulged line, is that correct? I would not have done that, if it is soft and bulged it could be collapsing under suction. It really should be replaced with new hose. If you have one bad line, they all would be suspect. Did you clear the rest of the system? The memo that undee posted shows how to check everything short of tear down.
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Post by stillsawing on Dec 27, 2017 19:27:35 GMT -5
Page 3, paragraph E of the service memo says it all. A few bucks in new lines saves time and aggravation. Air bubbles should not be present in any type of pump, manual or automatic, gas or oil. Stay at it, the 450's are the hot rods of the Homelite saws.
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Post by onlyhomelites on Dec 27, 2017 19:49:43 GMT -5
Once the oil makes it too the oil pump, it is unlikely that you have a problem downstream to the bar pad as those are internal passages. Your oil tank should have two hoses and pickups in it; one for the manual oiler and one for the automatic. The one for the automatic oiler comes out of the tank and connects to a barb on the crankcase near the bar pad. Both need to be intact and connected in order for the system to work properly. Also, have you removed the clutch so that you can inspect the oil pump diaphragm? It's the same setup that was used on the Super 2 saws and the diaphragm can get old and stiff. The port can also plug up with sludge, but this isn't super common. On the manual oiler, the plastic line is the discharge line...you can always unscrew that and give the plunger a couple of pumps. If nothing comes out, the problem is likely the o-rings on the manual plunger. If you haven't already found it, here's an IPL for your saw that will help explain how it's all put together: www.leonschainsawpartsandrepair.com/uploads/3/9/7/9/39792537/homelite_450_chainsaw_ipl_24897_revision_1_.pdf |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 20:05:14 GMT -5
The "bulge"was at the very end of the line,that's where I cut the"bulge"off.I was not aware thst there are two oil lines in the tank.Apparently I only took care of one of the lines.You guys will have to forgive me & bear with me.This is my first Homelite,& I'm also visually impaired.I do have a knack for figuring things out though.Sometimes it might take me a little longer,but eventually I'll figure it out.I do want to thank everyone for all the help you've given me thus far.I'll keep you posted of the progress.Tomorrow is another day!
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 27, 2017 20:10:49 GMT -5
Hang in there, we understand how tough it can be to fix something unfamiliar with instructions over the phone. Keep at it, you will get it working. :{)
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Post by onlyhomelites on Dec 27, 2017 21:30:43 GMT -5
Sweepleader summed it up well! You'll get it and we'll help any way we can!
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Post by lesorubcheek on Dec 27, 2017 22:26:24 GMT -5
Should have thought to mention this sooner, but the brain is a little slower than usual lately.  By chance can you tell if the cylinder has ever been separated from the crankcase? It may not be easy to tell, but one possible problem is that someone reassembled and gummed up the channel on the crankcase face. I took a pic so you can see what I'm talking about. I've seen some 450/550s that used a very thin sheet of what looks like aluminum foil to cover this area to keep rtv or other sealant from seeping in where the cylinder joins the case. You have to be very careful not to put too much sealant around this channel. Whoever had the saw previously may have accidentally gummed it up. Again, just a possibility. Dan  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 10:34:41 GMT -5
I contacted the previous owner on ebay & told him to be honest & that I wasn't looking for a refund.I asked him if he ever had any issues with the oilers not working.His response was"NO",he suggested that since he had to drtain all of the fluids for shipping that possibly the oilers "hadn't re-primed yet".I had the saw running on 3 different occasions & it should've primed the pumps by now.I also used the manual oiler extensively which should've primed that one as well.What he told me didn't quite set that well with me.Then I began to think that maybe that's why he put it on ebay to begin with.It has good compression - just under 150#.As far as I can tell Dan,it hasn't been apart at all,& if it was taken apart he did a pretty good job of putting it back together again.I believe he has a small engine shop,so I assume he's very professional.
That's the problem with buying stuff on ebay,people will lie through their teeth just to sell something.It's pretty much a crap shoot buying a good running chainsaw there.Although I did get lucky about 2 months ago when I bought a McCulloch Eager Beaver there that only needed a spark plug!I know I shouldn't mention that brand here.LolThe saw is like new,after I put the plug in it I put gas in it & gave it a couple of pulls & away it went.It runs & idles perfectly.I can't wait to take it out to cut in the spring.Now I'm going out to the garage to probably cuss at the 450 (LOL) & do some investigation.
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Post by lesorubcheek on Dec 28, 2017 11:24:52 GMT -5
That's the problem with buying stuff on ebay,people will lie through their teeth just to sell something.It's pretty much a crap shoot buying a good running chainsaw there. Yes, I agree ya can't expect a saw to be ready to cut buying from feebay. Haven't bought a saw in a while now (no more room!) but I'm always just looking for a good project saw anyway, not one that needs 5 minutes of work and it'll be ready to go to work. They're all going to be pretty much completely disassembled, cleaned, and rejuvenated as good as possible. That's as much fun as cutting for me! You'll figure out the oiler problem... may take a little time, may be quick. Either case, hopefully you'll enjoy the repair process whatever you find. Maybe it'll be an easy fix. Personally, I prefer a challenge. You learn more when there's a real challenge... if it's too easy you don't grow. Just feel free to ask any questions and don't feel intimidated. HoH is a great site with helpful people. Some forums are full of smart A's who try to make you feel stupid when you ask a question. Not like that around here. Dan |
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 28, 2017 12:35:20 GMT -5
"HoH is a great site with helpful people."
That's true, and lesorubcheek is one of the best. :{)
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Post by stillsawing on Dec 28, 2017 15:01:16 GMT -5
Start with the manual pump first, if you think the finder and the suction line are in good shape, disconnect the pressure line inside the air box. That being the first stage of the manual circuit, you should have oil at the outlet of the manual pump after a few strokes. If that fails, then you look for a problem from there back to the oil reservoir. Working the systems through each advancing stage until you have oil at the chain will be the way to find the defective part or the improper assembled sequence of parts. Rely on the IPL of the saw by model, and the service memo that has been provided here in this thread. Have patience with it, inspect parts closely, even if you need to run your fingers up and down the lines or find defects with a o-ring. Keep working on it and ask questions, the only dumb question is the one not asked.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 16:52:01 GMT -5
Well gang,first of all I want to thank everyone that responded to my thread & gave me encouragement.Today I hit pay dirt.I found the problem with the manual oiler - the suction line coming from the tank where it hooks onto the barb for the manual oiler was sucking air (just as I suspected somewhere),that's what was causing the air bubbles at the pad.I cut off the defective section,l took the cap off & put air to the line & saw all kinds of air coming up through the oil,that told me that the line was clear,I then reattached it to the barb & it puked out oil like there's no tomorrow when I activated the manual pump.Now it's on to the auto-oiler.Obviously the guy I bought the saw from lied like a rug because an oil line doesn't go bad just like that.That's most likely why he put it on ebay in the first place.Oh well,his loss is my gain.God it makes a man feel good when he can repair something with the help of good friends that others give up on as a lost cause.
Now for that auto-oiler.I'm having a heck of a time getting the supply line inside the tank out.One almost has to have 3 hands - one to hold & shine a light in the tank,one to hold the manual line out of the way,& a third to fish the auto-oiler line out of the tank.I'd like to try to blow some air into the auto-oiler line & clean the sump screen to start,or would blowing air this way possibly hurt the diaphragm?Also,someone said something about removing the clutch to get access to the auto-oiler if need be.What's involved with removing the clutch?Do I need any special tools?I do have some big hammers & a fire wrench.Lol
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 28, 2017 17:19:09 GMT -5
Well there edju, a hammer and a smoke wrench will get the clutch off, BUT you might have trouble on reassembly... I would suggest that you follow the memo above that undee posted, line by line. That will get you through the system without missing anything. And I think most here would suggest that with any old saw that has gas or oil trouble, the first step is replace all the hoses. And yes, you will need a spanner to get the clutch off. For some hints on that issue, see: houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/6404/clutch-removal There are a couple of tools there, you can make or buy what you need. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 11:44:09 GMT -5
I'd like someone to explain to me why I must remove the clutch in order to access the auto-oiler on the 450.The cover plate is right there & easily accessible to remove.I did see a couple of parts on Leon's site that I might need,but I didn't see the pump diaphragm on his site.I'd also appreciate it if someone could post an enlarged exploded view of the auto-oiler assembly.It's really kind of cumbersome for me to be using my magnifier to try to see the miniscule IPLs that get posted.If no one can do it,don't worry about it,I'll do the best I can,I've been trying to cope with my poor eyesight now for almost 30 yrs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:30:41 GMT -5
Never mind about putting a larger version on this site,I found a real nice one on Leon's site.Also,looking at the IPL there,I don't see any"diaphragm"for the auto-oiler on the 450.Another thing that I find a bit confusing is:what's the difference between a 450,450W,450HG,& 450SL? How do you tell the difference?Or might that be good for another thread?
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Post by onlyhomelites on Dec 29, 2017 14:35:56 GMT -5
I don't work on these enough to remember if there is room to get to the screws with the clutch in place...if there is, by all means save the hassle and go for it! You can blow air through the pickup hose for the auto oiler with everything installed, but I wouldn't do a sustained high PSI blast for too long. In all liklihood, the diaphragm has gotten stiff. I am out of stock at this time, but there is one on Ebay: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ftrt=901&_sop=10&_sadis=15&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&_stpos=97535&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=homelite+12356&_blrs=spell_checkThe different 450's indicate options that were available. The "HG" was a model with a hand guard, the "SL" stood for safety lever aka chain brake, the "W" was a west coast model that typically had a full wrap handle bar. |
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