I've Had a Brainstorm!

[Deleted]

I've been thinking about this for awhile now.We'd need a guy like Warren Buffett,Elon Musk,or Bill Gates (basically any billionaire will do for the monetary backing).I'm sure this has been thought of before,but there's always legal problems that jump out.Start up the Homelite chainsaws again,but call them another name because Homelite is still somewhat in business yet.Or at least make Homelite parts again for all the Homelites ever made that are no longer available.I know it'd probably take millions just for the legal end of things.This time though the new "Homelites"would be piston ported instead of the old reed valve routine.I suppose the Ryobi Homelites are piston ported,I wouldn't know since I don't have one nor will I have one in the future.The old Homelite equipment was a name that meant quality - hell,there are saws out there that are still running that were made back in the 60's & 70's & even before that,& those saws were/are being used on an almost daily basis.I talked with a gentleman from Kentucky recently who swears by the old Homelites for milling lumber because they ran a little slower,but had amazing torque.They'd outlast a Stihl or Husky because of this.I don't know the first thing about starting up a business,or in this case a"dead"(for lack of a better word) business.I've been laughed at before for having ideas like this -I don't mind,but sometime down the road,it might be 10 yrs.,this idea may come to fruition (as some of my ideas in the past have).I'll gladly accept ridicule & critique & criticism.

[Deleted]

Its a great idea Ed and a wonderful dream. I don't think anyone here would disagree with the plan. The only problem is that millionaires, ala "Shark Tank", didn't get to be millionaires without understanding marketing. Marketing today is more important than quality, in fact I doubt quality would make the top three characteristics of a new product. Within the marketing strategy comes an indepth look at demographics before any other money is spent. That demographic study would tell how many people would buy and use such a product and whether or not there was a high probability to recoup initial invest, make a profit on initial offerings, and continue to be profitable for X amount of years. While you, me and many of the folks here would welcome such a product unfortunately at our age we do not represent a future or up market, we are a declining market that will result in less sales rather than more sales. The average man today may never own a chainsaw, or if he does, it's an electric model or small cheap box store saw that sees little action. In general those are the saws that represent "The Market" in saws. You do have a secondary market that is still strong today, but it isn't seen as a up market and that is the professional line. The reason behind that is that fewer professional saws are sold today as logging industry has changed due to many products now being made of man made products. In addition harvesting machines have taken the place of large professional saws in many areas. Eventually we will see PVC 2x4's, already some of the trim used in homes is either composite fiber or man made and that market will continue to rise. The lumber industry right now is having a rough time and builders are having to up their prices considerably since the large uptick in Canadian pulpwood prices. Cedar has gone through the roof and other lumber such as plywood have jumped as well. These rising prices in natural products will cause a proliferation in new companies beginning to produce more and more man made products formally made out of wood since the overhead of establishing the factories and tools becomes profitable against the cost of wood products. All that said, I love a beautiful idea and a dream, but as an over 60 year old this isn't our world any longer and the men of this world are not the men of our world, anymore than we were of our father's world.

[Deleted]

Yeah Mike,you're right.I guess I still think old school.Something else that drove up the sales of Homelite saws back in the 70's were the first energy crises we'd ever experienced as a nation,other than fuel rationing during WWII.People figured they'd go back to burning wood rather than pay the outlandish prices that natural gas &  fuel oil companies were charging back then.I'm sure that a lot of saws were only used for a few yrs.& then were just put away in granddad's shed until being rediscovered by their grandkids some 40 plus yrs.later.only to be revived not out of necessity,but rather for nostalgic reasons.My grandfather never owned a chainsaw in his life,he never had a need for one.He simply hated cutting wood because it was all done by hand back then - he was born in 1893.He'd rather burn coal than burn wood.In the 1950's coal sold for $15-$17/ton,give or take a dollar or two.Then as fuel prices went sky high,which in turn led to the transportation of coal to go up as well,but still,coal was a cheap source of heat.Nowadays coal is around $350/ton - roughly,& the major reason that it's so high is trucking it from Pa.to N.Y.I can go down to the coal mines of Pa.& buy it directly from there for about half that price.
      Now we fast fwd.to the 2000's,there are still the old style cheaply made wood burners that might last 10 yrs.if you're lucky.Those units are made so tou can control the air intake somewhat.Then there are the sophisticated wood burners like the Yukon furnaces that are highly technological.They have after burners in them that re-burn the gases that are given off by burning wood.The efficiency of these units is astounding.I've been told that my wood consumption could be cut by 75%.I've been tempted to replace my current furnace with one of those units,but like everything else,it takes money.
   I guess I got off point here,but you're absolutely right about the demographics - we represent a dying fraction of the current masses.If someone had this type of dream when Homelite sold the "professional"line of saws to John Deere back in '94,well,there might've been a better shot.Now keeping the existing Homelites going is eventually going to come to an end because there are a bunch of parts out there yet,but they will run out.Homelite wasn't the only company this happened to either,McCulloch owners are in the same boat as well.My supplier for parts told me horror stories of an endless supply of McCulloch parts went to a landfill because they couldn't find a buyer for their warehouse that was loaded to the hilt with parts.I believe they wanted around one million dollars for their warehouse full of parts & no one had that kind of money to buy it,that's why it went to the landfill.My parts supplier also told me about a parts warehouse in outh America who contacted him wanting to sell their warehouse full of parts to him - he didn't have the room to put all the parts,or the money to buy them,just another story of NOS parts going to the landfill.I'm sure the same has happened to Homelite as well.

[dynodave]

IIRC First one man homelite saw 20MCS 108cc was not until 1950.
My 5-30 114cc is 1953 and I think the 3rd saw of that era.

Similar issue with poulan now owned by Husqvarna. Almost all the older poulans have a few key components as NLA like starter pullies for the 3400 and the 2150. Yet the same year 1997 husky 41 is no problem for parts and was made by poulan.
Marketing runs big business...not the satisfied customer
Husqvarna now owns McCulloch and would probably love to kill all mac parts.

Todays homelite is owned by a Hong Kong financial consortium. USA division is headquartered in SC?

[Deleted]

I know that Homelit,as we know it now is owned & made by Ryobi of S.Korea,but I've seen new"McCulloch" saws being sold on a McCulloch web site & are sold at Sears.The biggest McCulloch saw is only about 45 cc,same as the wannabe Homelite.Sad to say,I own 2 Huskys,a 41 & a 235.Both of them in my opinion are cheaply made,I know for a fact that the 41 has a PLASTIC oiler in it.It's a good running saw,but seriously,how long is a plastic oiler going to hold up?I had to have mine replaced last June,cost me $70.If I'd have known then what I know now,I'd have done it myself & saved a bunch of money.That saw was another feebay special,I bought it in 2014.Apparently it sat on a shelf in a shop in California for a number of yrs.The guy who worked on that saw didn't know what he was doing - it had the wrong sprocket on it & the wrong pick up & hose in the tank.I put a few more bucks into it & it'sd been a good runner since.Last yr.my son & I had a good sized maple to take down at a neighbor's place.All 3 of my limbing saws were down for one reason or another,so I brought my Jonsered 361 out of"retirement" - I bought it in 1982.My son's buddy couldn't believe how good it ran for being 35 yrs.old.It out cut his new Poulan which was a much bigger saw.

[dynodave]

from wikipedia....are they wrong???
Techtronic Industries Company Limited (SEHK: 669), Techtronic or TTI, is an investment holding company based in Hong Kong.[1] Its products include Milwaukee, AEG (AEG Powertools, licensed from Electrolux), Ryobi, Homelite, Hoover US, Dirt Devil, and Vax. TTI employs over 20,000 staff and in 2014 had worldwide annual sales of US$4.8 billion.[2] Subsidiaries include AC (Macao Commercial Offshore) Limited, Baja, Inc., Homelite Consumer Products, Inc., Hoover Inc., One World Technologies, Inc. and Sang Tech Industries Limited.

From husqvarna group website:
The Group´s poducts and solutions are sold under brands including Husqvarna, Gardena, McCulloch, Poulan Pro, Weed Eater, Flymo, Zenoah and Diamant Boart
1999 - purch. rights to McCulloch products outside of USA
2008 - Purchased Jeng Feng Industrial of Taiwan, the owner of the McCulloch brand in North America, thus giving Husqvarna world-wide rights to the McCulloch brand

I also own a husky 41 and have been struggling with this poulan made saw.

[undee70ss]

Feb 10, 2018 20:09:27 GMT -5 edju1958 said:

Or at least make Homelite parts again for all the Homelites ever made that are no longer available.

That can be done, but it takes a lot of money to something like that, and it would probably take a very long time (if ever) to recoup your investment. There was a member here who was having made belts and fuel lines made for the older belt driven Homelites. These parts were impossible to find NOS. I believe he was only having made a hundred or so parts of each. The cost per part was very high. Now if one were having made 10's or 100's of thousands of parts, the cost per part would be much less, but you would never be able to sell them all. 

[Deleted]

"Or at least make Homelite parts again for all the Homelites ever made that are no longer available."  
That was one of the main points of my post Greg.Unfortunately,big business is not an easy thing.We can only use very few parts from other saw mfgrs.that will work on our Homelites,like the Stihl boots for throttle rods,etc.As for the thin piston rings - I don't believe there was another saw that had thin piston rings like Homelite did.That was probably Homelite's way of being unique.The saw models that had thicker piston rings might have a chance of having rings from another mfgr.swap out.Of course there's Otto's that custom makes rings,but the piston rings are only one of the many hundreds of parts that make up a saw.In essence,we're fighting a losing battle,eventually all the NOS parts will run out & our beloved Homelites will only exist in museums.I probably won't see this happen in my lifetime,but I'm sure my son will.I never owned or even ran a Homelite until 2 months ago. I had at least 2 uncles who owned Homelite saws that I know of.One uncle only cut a few cord a yr.for his fireplace.The other uncle used his saw to cut fire wood to sell & raise a family of 5 kids.He sold hundreds of cords of fire wood every yr.for many yrs.I never heard either uncle complain about their saws either.
     The same thing happened to many other U.S.companies -DeSoto,Packard,AMC,& many more.We coped with those losses & life went on.I'm sure our offspring will do the same.

[andrew925]

Feb 10, 2018 20:09:27 GMT -5 edju1958 said:

I've been thinking about this for awhile now.We'd need a guy like Warren Buffett,Elon Musk,or Bill Gates (basically any billionaire will do for the monetary backing).I'm sure this has been thought of before,but there's always legal problems that jump out.Start up the Homelite chainsaws again,but call them another name because Homelite is still somewhat in business yet.Or at least make Homelite parts again for all the Homelites ever made that are no longer available.I know it'd probably take millions just for the legal end of things.This time though the new "Homelites"would be piston ported instead of the old reed valve routine.I suppose the Ryobi Homelites are piston ported,I wouldn't know since I don't have one nor will I have one in the future.The old Homelite equipment was a name that meant quality - hell,there are saws out there that are still running that were made back in the 60's & 70's & even before that,& those saws were/are being used on an almost daily basis.I talked with a gentleman from Kentucky recently who swears by the old Homelites for milling lumber because they ran a little slower,but had amazing torque.They'd outlast a Stihl or Husky because of this.I don't know the first thing about starting up a business,or in this case a"dead"(for lack of a better word) business.I've been laughed at before for having ideas like this -I don't mind,but sometime down the road,it might be 10 yrs.,this idea may come to fruition (as some of my ideas in the past have).I'll gladly accept ridicule & critique & criticism.

There's actually a company by the name of "Huztl" that is doing exactly this with certain older stihl/ husqvarna saws. They're a Chinese parts maker, selling from individual parts, to entire disassembled saws ("kit saws" as they're called). I know the name "china" won't bode well here, but from the reviews I've seen, the quality is overall pretty decent. The reason I bring this up is that I believe it will be hard as heck to convince any billionaire (especially one who isn't in the saw business whatsoever) to resurrect a saw brand that's been dead for nearly 20 years for a small following; ESPECIALLY if we make in America!

However, we may be able to convince this Huztl brand, whom is already in the saw business, whom already has decent Chinese manufacturers, and whom already has a website and distribution network; to tack on a Homelite line of parts and kit saws! 

[will]

Apr 13, 2018 10:27:04 GMT -5 andrew925 said:

Feb 10, 2018 20:09:27 GMT -5 edju1958 said:

I've been thinking about this for awhile now.We'd need a guy like Warren Buffett,Elon Musk,or Bill Gates (basically any billionaire will do for the monetary backing).I'm sure this has been thought of before,but there's always legal problems that jump out.Start up the Homelite chainsaws again,but call them another name because Homelite is still somewhat in business yet.Or at least make Homelite parts again for all the Homelites ever made that are no longer available.I know it'd probably take millions just for the legal end of things.This time though the new "Homelites"would be piston ported instead of the old reed valve routine.I suppose the Ryobi Homelites are piston ported,I wouldn't know since I don't have one nor will I have one in the future.The old Homelite equipment was a name that meant quality - hell,there are saws out there that are still running that were made back in the 60's & 70's & even before that,& those saws were/are being used on an almost daily basis.I talked with a gentleman from Kentucky recently who swears by the old Homelites for milling lumber because they ran a little slower,but had amazing torque.They'd outlast a Stihl or Husky because of this.I don't know the first thing about starting up a business,or in this case a"dead"(for lack of a better word) business.I've been laughed at before for having ideas like this -I don't mind,but sometime down the road,it might be 10 yrs.,this idea may come to fruition (as some of my ideas in the past have).I'll gladly accept ridicule & critique & criticism.

There's actually a company by the name of "Huztl" that is doing exactly this with certain older stihl/ husqvarna saws. They're a Chinese parts maker, selling from individual parts, to entire disassembled saws ("kit saws" as they're called). I know the name "china" won't bode well here, but from the reviews I've seen, the quality is overall pretty decent. The reason I bring this up is that I believe it will be hard as heck to convince any billionaire (especially one who isn't in the saw business whatsoever) to resurrect a saw brand that's been dead for nearly 20 years for a small following; ESPECIALLY if we make in America!

However, we may be able to convince this Huztl brand, whom is already in the saw business, whom already has decent Chinese manufacturers, and whom already has a website and distribution network; to tack on a Homelite line of parts and kit saws! 

I can buy a Chinese Huztl Stihl 660 for under 200 delivered, it needs assembled, but people are selling them for 600 and cant keep them in stock

[rarefish383]

I know this is an old thread and Ed is no longer here. But along a similar track. I've collected Mopar Muscle cars for 30 or more years. I had some NOS parts that one of the major reproduction manufacturers wanted to buy. While talking to them, I asked why no one made repro 67-69 Barracuda fenders. I had found one NOS fender and they wanted $1200 for it. I said you could buy a 68 Camaro fender for about $150. He said the Camaro took 4-5 breaks to make it. The Barracuda took something like 13-15 breaks to make it. They made over 300,000 Camaros in 68. With all 3 body styles, the fastback, notch back, and convertible, they only made about 60,000 Barracudas. He said that if they sold one set of front fenders for every 68 Barracuda made, at $150 like the Camaro, they could not pay for the tooling to make them. The 67, 68, and 69 Barracuda share the same front fenders, just different marker lights. I've heard that with modern equipment, fenders for my car might be in production soon. But soon might be 10 years. I guess saws are similar. No one wants enough old saws to tool up to make them. Now, if I hit a 300 million lottery, I might try to buy the rights to the Super 1050/2100/3100 series and build a few for myself, Joe.