SXL 900 something / no spark issue

[junkyarddoggie]

Hello All

I just found this forum, was getting sick and tired of listening to the crap from the guys on the other forums about the old homie. Nice to see that some other people like these old saws. Not exactly sure on the model of this one, maybe some one can help on that.
cmasalvage.com/homelight1.jpg
cmasalvage.com/homelight2.jpg
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I am once again having problems with the old Homelite Super XL. 900 something. The saw was running and cutting great and just up and quit on me. The problem is that it lost spark. I have replaced the coil three times, the last one was brand new. New electronic ignition twice, Replaced the spark plug, checked all wires, and switch. Trimmed back the coil wire 1/4 inch and replaced the end connector and boot. Still no spark, what gives here? Is the magnet in the fly wheel gone bad or something crazy like that ? What am I missing ? I have to much money in to this saw to just junk it.


Thanks Mike

[chainsawwhisperer]

Welcome to the forum JYD, There's a eclectic group of misfits here on HOH. Were all dedicated to preserving these great saws. Great to have you aboard.

I'm not familiar with the ignition on that saw, But I don't think that the problem is your magnet. From what I understand, to make a magnet lose its magnetism, high heat or an impact are needed.
Are the coil and the ignition unit separate? if so check the resistance through the coil...primary side and secondary side.
Soon others will jump on this thread, and point you in the right direction. CSW

[lesorubcheek]

Hello Mike and welcome!
Nice looking saw you have. It'd help if you could take a few close-up pics of what's under the starter cover so we can get some idea of the type of ignition used. The 7/8/900 series used multiple types of ignition systems, and it'd be a big help to see what's under the hood.

Dan

[junkyarddoggie]

Thanks for the welcome. finally a site where the general population not telling me to go buy a stihl and junk the homie.

The saw is late 60s early 70s vintage, the best I can tell. It's the light blue in color. Currently the coil and electronic ignition are separate. The ignition is one of those after market add ons that eliminates the points. I've added those units to several pieces of equipment I own with fantastic results. I am a Stens after market parts dealer so I can get those ignition units for dirt cheap.

I haven't checked the resistance on the new coil, will do that. What type of numbers should I see. When I checked the resistance on the other coils I, the numbers were all over the board. I suspected the old used coils I tried weren't any good. I figured this new coil would do the trick.

[junkyarddoggie]

Hello

Here are some of those under hood shots. The last pic is the original coil. I tested the resistance, 7 to 8 ohms both sides on the original coil and 8 to 9 ohms on the new one.

cmasalvage.com/homie_uh_shot1.jpg
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[chainsawwhisperer]

Measure between the positive and the negative wires(primary winding), you should get a low reading 4-9 ohm. then measure from the high tension tower (secondary winding) to either ground or the primary side windings (I can't remember which one or both), but what your looking for is a high or even infinite resistance value. CSW

Someone correct my post with the right procedure if I'm wrong
and/or clarify the secondary winding part. thanks

[junkyarddoggie]

Hi guys

Ok measured the ohms.

1.1 ohms replacement coil, 0.7 ohms original coil (primary winding) thats the red wire and the tab off the back of the coil.

7.41 ohms replacement coil, 7.56 ohms original coil (secondary winding) high tension wire to wire or tab off the back of the coil.

Am I doing this correctly? Do these numbers sound right? What is the opinion on the coils

Also has any one decided if my saw is a 925 or the smaller version?

[lesorubcheek]

That reading for the secondary doesn't sound good on either coil. The resistance between the high tension wire and ground reference should be in the thousands of ohms. Not sure what type meter you're using... if it has variable ranges, make sure its set for k-ohms for checking the high tension side. If these are true readings though, it sounds like you have an internal short on the high tension side.

Dan

[lesorubcheek]

Jun 20, 2008 6:16:08 GMT -5 junkyarddoggie said:

Also has any one decided if my saw is a 925 or the smaller version?

Can't call you're saw a 925. First of all, every 925 is red!. More importantly, 925s are the only saw of the series with thin rings. 925s came with either a 3 piece electronic ignition or a single piece module, so the fact you have a coil means its different than a true 925. There were so many variants of the 7/8/900 series and each one has a slightly unique characteristic. First thing I'd reccomend is to remove the muffler and look at the piston. What type rings do you see? Some models used conventional thick rings, some had a Dykes ring. Next, try to measure the bore. This will narrow down the possibilites a good bit on exactly what model you have (keeping in mind that parts can get swapped from different models and really make true identification difficult!).

Dan

[junkyarddoggie]

Thanks for the great reply!

Yes we have eliminated the 925 theory so I was down to 700, 800, 900 something? So you thing it might be an XL 700. I bought it from a pawn shop and some one has written super XL something with a sharpie marker on the side. I was wiping the saw down and it came right off, can't remember what the number was. It has been repainted, but it's an all blue saw with no other parts cobbled into it. I have seen many of these old saws with every color of part you can imagine on it. I do believe mine is all original blue, which should be helpful with the id. I have searched the Acres site with out being able to really nail it down as of yet.

The magnet on the flywheel seems strong. The air gap is set at 12 thousands, I had it set at 11 but it rubbed on the flywheel. I've swapped electronic ignition modules from another saw that I know sparks good, and still the same thing. I haven't tried replacing the spark plug wire. I did a continuity test and it tests ok. I suppose it's not making good contact on the coil side, something worth checking for sure. That's what I'll do next. The coil testing is a funny thing, so many different ways of testing. It just seems strange that all four coils I used including the brand new one would be bad. I am not totally convinced that the coil is bad. I do have one other saw that I could swap the coil out of, however I hate to disturb something that works and have it not work later on.

[hawtsawz]

JYD,
I could have sworn that the 923 saws were blue like your's but I could be wrong. Another thing is that I believe all the earlier Super XL series and XL-98 saws had the idle adjust thru the air box. I know that my 925's have the carb mounted idle adjust. Hope you solve the spark issue and solve the model mystery

[junkyarddoggie]

The saw looks to be all original. I've torn it down far enough to tell the parts are all originally light blue. The clutch cover seems like it had a white stripe on it before, I can't make out any words or letters. It does have the idle adjust screw through the air box, It's a pointed shaft separate from the carb. Also the saw has the light green rubber coating on the handle. I haven't seen many others with that coating, that might be a good clue. I've checked that switch with my meter and it's good as well as the wiring. It's not upside down, good point there for something silly being wrong. I only wish it was something silly like that. I was using the saw last fall when it started running rough and just quit.

[junkyarddoggie]

Yes it is more important to get her running than the id. The saw really screams and just shreds through wood. It is, or was the perfect saw for those big jobs that come around every once in a while.

Yes I did the conversion my self, only after it lost the spark. I got a spark back briefly once the conversion was done, but once refueled and ready to test the spark was gone. Then I tried replacing the ign module with the one from my other saw. Just for kicks I took another ign module right out of the package and tried it, still no spark. I tried the coils from three other saws one being an XL12. I haven't had the flywheel off, just clipped the points wire. That's a good point, I just assumed it had problems with the points and never investigated. I need to change out the plug wire, the spark plug end and boot are new. The end piece of the connector just pokes into the wire. I need to order several feet of that wire to have on hand. You couldn't find anything like that around to save your life. I had some wire but it got old and brittle and I tossed it.

The other saw I've just gone through is a Lombard Comango which looks a lot like the XL12. All I lack is a clutch on that one. It has the the new electronic ignition just like the one I put on the Homelite. I did however remove the points and condenser completely on that one. The spark on that Lombard is strong.

At this point frustration has set in and I need to set the saw aside for a few days. I put it all back together so parts won't get mixed up or lost. I just got the special molded fuel line for my Pro Mac 55 which had been on back order for months. So I'm not hurting for a mid size saw any more, no rush to work on the homie. Thanks all for the help, hopefully we can get this sorted out and the saw back in action. This is no show saw, it's a work saw.

[OBR]

Just a thought. But you may want to consider scrapping the whole conversion piece you have now and searching for a used solid state setup like the ones found on later 925's. If you did that all you'd have to do is remove all you current components (flywheel, coil, points, etc) and put on the flywheel, mounting plate, and solid state module from the 925. Then you'd would have no doubt it'll work. Just my 2 cents.

[RBW]

+1 for going back to points.



But Im a points kind of guy......

[lesorubcheek]

Add another +1 here as well. Points work very well and I've rarely had problems other than the need to clean them from time to time. Yea, ya have to pull the flywheel, but once you have a puller, its no big deal. I've had more saws with problems with solid state modules than I've had with points.

Now in your case it sounds like ya may possibly have a bad coil (coils), so the picture gets a little more complicated. Its not like ya just go out and buy the parts you need... you have to FIND them first! It would be good to determine beyond any doubt if your coils are really bad or not. Ya said you'd put things away for a while, but when ya get ready to fool with it again, would it be possible for ya to post some pictures showing your connections on the meter and the meter readings? Maybe if we see the same thing you're looking at somebody will have a lead on a suggestion to try next.

Dan

[hawtsawz]

JYD,
I had a funny thing happen to me last weekend. I bought a Partner 65cc saw from a guy for $5 bucks. He told me the saw didn't run and it was for parts. To make a long story short and after reading that you had spark and then didn't, I found that the plug wire coil that snaps over the spark plug terminal (inside the boot)was almost completely out of the wire (hidden by the boot). Could this be the problem you have? After I fixed the wire problem I had a nice running saw that starts on a half pull. Also, I had found in my XL-7&800 parts list (combined list) Blue & White are listed as paint along with red for these models. Hope your having luck with your saw. I also agree that points are not as bad as they seem. Just a little more maintenance

[sugarcreeksaws]

Hi guys,
If, the saw is original parts and has not had things swapped out, it is an XL-700. The XL-700 was the only saw of its type that was blue and had a horizontally placed oiler cylinder on the right side of the carb box. The XL-800 was only red. The XL-901 and XL-921 saws were blue, however, they had vertical oiler cylinders in back. My XL-700 also has a green coating on the wrap handle.
As for the electronic problem, two things to try,.....question first, did you reuse the same spark plug wire with all the coils? If so, pull the wire and check it for continuity,...I have had a wire develop a break mid-wire...can't see it, and you get intermittent to no spark....will drive a guy crazy! Second thing I would check is to see if the points and condenser under the flywheel were ever disconnected before the little electronic bug was installed.
I took the points and condenser completely out of an XL-12 and installed one of those little bugs......unbelievable how well it runs!
Hope that helps!
Talk to you soon!
Joe

[junkyarddoggie]

Hi hotsawz and Joe

Great deal on that partner saw, you got to love it when one of those deals comes along. I couldn't be so lucky on mine. The spark plug connector and boot are new. I also trimmed back the wire end 1/4 inch to get in to some fresh meet. I checked on some of that 7mm wire in my Stens book yesterday, I can get a 20 ft roll for around 10 bucks. Then I started to think I have a really old set of NOS spark plug wires put up in the garage, I might be able to cut a section out of them. If the wires have the thick solid wire inside, they will work. Most modern wires have a really thin wire that you can get good contact on, believe me I've tried in the past. Well the id seems to boil down to XL700, the manual pumper is horizontal on the saw. So who ever wrote super xl on it was was wrong any way, since it's just a regular XL. Yes I did use the same spark plug wire with all the coils. It's clamped in there with a tab and will be difficult to remove but I'll have to, since I believe that is where the problem lies. I did continuity test it but I think the ends are not getting good connections. I also wanted to pull the fly wheel and completely remove the points and condenser, I clipped off the wire and left them. I've used those little electronic "bugs" on several of my saws and old mowers with fantastic results. Don't get me wrong points are ok, I still have many things running on points. I just figured I would eliminate some problems with updating the electrical system.

Thanks a bunch guys, it's great to have others to talk to about old saws. I grew tired of the statements from the guys on the other forum. "Junk everything that's not a Stihl" I like to at least try fix things when they are broken, and not be that moron who runs out and buys new every time.