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Post by lildevil66 on Sept 7, 2009 19:45:16 GMT -5
I am new to the board and would first like to say what a find. There is a lot of great information here about these old saws.
I have browsed through most all the post and have read a lot of tips and solutions. Posters seem really knowledgeable and eager to share.
My question: I have a Super EZ (SEZ as others call it, I think) that was given to me by a friend who is no longer with us. I was going to get it up and running sorta in honor of him 'cause I know he's watching down on me. The problem I am having is a lack of spark, I think???. Not sure if that is a possibility or not but when I check it with a spark indicator, it is really dim but when I check my Husqvarna with the same indicator I get a bright light.
I took off the flywheel (Wico ignition) and checked the points. The saw is in very good condition and the points are evidence of this as they looked very clean. I was unsure what I should read on my DMM on the condenser but I know it is like a capacitor so I checked it accordingly. I didn't have any specs on the condenser but it appeared good also. I was considering changing the points and condenser but can't find any locally to do so. Little shop down the road said they are obsolete so I thought I would try here. Do I also need to change the coil when I replace the other?
Just trying to get a start on the project and any help would be appreciated.
I did try a shot of starting fluid but that didn't help either. Just thought I would mention that before it was suggested.
Again, thanks for all the help in advance
Homelite Super EZ Automatic
SN. 51072344
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Post by mikem on Sept 8, 2009 7:30:40 GMT -5
Welcome to the board ! As a great starting place, as you seem experienced with a multimeter, I would go to the tutorial board (on this forum) and check a couple of threads on testing the points/condenser ignition system. MCS did a great job of outlining how to test the individual components of this system. Let us know if you have questions about the test procedure.
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Post by lildevil66 on Sept 8, 2009 14:49:45 GMT -5
mikem,
Thanks for the reply. I did read the post on the magneto ignition and understood most all of it. The question I had was: Is it possible to not have enough spark due to a failing condenser or would it go bad all at once? My DMM, of course cannot read a volltage as high as a spark plug or a quick as one ignites from the magneto and coil. I even had the nerve to hold the plug while cranking and although there was some tingle. the shock was definetly not your big ZAP that I should have recieved. I think I need to replace at least the condenser and points but was not sure about the coil since it does generate the high voltage to create the spark. I can not locate these parts locally so I was also wandering if someone can help there as well.
Thanks again
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Post by MCS on Sept 8, 2009 18:02:35 GMT -5
Hi and welcome to the board.
As I pointed out in the tutorial or tips and trick, checking a condenser is not easy. Unless you've had the opportunity to test several, both good ones and bad ones using an ohm meter, it is hard to understand what the meter is telling you. And yes, a bad condenser will give a weak spark.
Your condenser should be somewhere around .20 microfarads but unless your meter will read capacitors, the correct electrical name, you won't see that number. There is really nothing special about them other than physical size, being able to mount it, and having a compatible lead to connect to the point screw. I'd bet that just about any small engine magneto condenser would work if you could mount it and connect it.
Do not read spark voltage with your meter, it could damage the meter.
Disconnect the ground lead from the kill switch and connect your meter to it and to the coil ground lead. You should see less than .5 ohms when the points are closed and over 1 ohm when the points are open. Use the lowest ohm scale for this test.
What do you have for a DVM? What is the highest ohm setting?
Craig
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Post by lildevil66 on Sept 9, 2009 0:51:02 GMT -5
Thanks Craig,
I have Fluke 87 III that I am using. I am an electronic tech by trade so misusing it is not a problem. I can also get my hands on a capacitance meter to actually check the condenser and get an accurate reading. I just didn't know what "accurate" was. Can I assume .20micro farads is OK or do you suggest changing the condenser. Also I will ohm out the points per your reply. I did not check them other than being sure they closed when the cam lobe
came around on the crank. Thanks again for all your help. Without a doubt, the most helpful site I have found thus far.
Chris
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Post by MCS on Sept 9, 2009 8:08:28 GMT -5
Are you sure the 87 doesn't have a capacitance test function? Fluke lists it under the 80 series meters but only the 87V. The 87V has capacitance. Your 87III must be a previous generation.
Since you have an electronics background, when the points open the coil primary and the condenser are a series RC network. When the primary field collapses and creates the "inductive kick", this spike will be low if the condenser is failing. Of course the coil could also be failing.
Make sure the high tension lead is good at both ends so the spark doesn't have to jump a gap at either end. It should unscrew from the coil. Only solid wire should be used, no carbon core wire.
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Post by lildevil66 on Sept 9, 2009 17:24:34 GMT -5
I discovered last night at work that the 87 does have capacitance testing. I have already checked the high tension wire and it appears to be good visually. I haven't had a chance to get back to the SEZ to check what else you suggested. I have my father-in-law's Stihl torn down on the bench right now and I think it's to serious to fix economically. I think it may become a donor saw. I will get back to it this weekend and check the condensor and ohm readings when the crank is turned. As always, thanks for all the help
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Post by lildevil66 on Sept 18, 2009 19:26:54 GMT -5
Hey Guys, Thanks for all the help. I found a guy up in Vermont who had a set of Wico points and condenser for $10. Thought I would start there. Retired to the shop and commensed to working on that old saw. Pulled the flywheel and got down to the business end of things and replaced the points and condenser with the new one. Re-assembled everything and put my spark indicator inline and had a real good bright spark. I gave it alittle shot of starting fluid, pulled it one time and got a pop. Right then I knew I was in business. I mixed up alittle 32:1 fuel and poured it in the tank. Pulled it twice and BINGO. Took of the bar and dialed in the carb then reinstalled the bar and chain and checked it again. This thing ran like a top. Got the idle set just right as well as the high end and low end. Checked the automatic oiler and the manual over ride as well and it worked flawlessly. I was just wanting to give a great big thanks to all that responded to the post as well as an update on the saw. I took some pics of it but didn't know if I could post them. If someone can tell me how I will share those as well. This is an awesome site with lots of useful info on these old saws. Just thought I would say Thanks!!!!
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Post by MCS on Sept 18, 2009 21:57:40 GMT -5
The saw is certainly worth a $10 tune-up  . I like the EZ line for the not-too-big stuff. Did you ever get a chance to test the condenser with your Fluke? |
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Post by lildevil66 on Sept 19, 2009 12:23:07 GMT -5
I did, it was real erratic though. Never could get the .2 micro farad reading. Check the new one and it was dead on .2 I figure that the condenser was the problem but went ahead and changed both while I was in there. Now just have to clean up the case it was in and it will look like a new one. Just for info, what are these old saws worth in good shape. Was considering giving it to my father-in-law since his Stihl took a dump. He said it was in too good a shape to use it and I should put it up and keep it looking good. Figured they were made to use, but I may just keep it for looks. Just glad I got it to run. The pictures I took of it are to big to post so I will have to figure out how to reduce their size and post them as well. I'll work on that after my fishing trip today.
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Post by mikem on Sept 22, 2009 13:57:06 GMT -5
I recently bought a non-running SEZ on Flea-Bay for $31 + shipping. I have seen SEZ's in really good condition bring over $100. Glad you got yours fixed.
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Post by MCS on Sept 23, 2009 7:00:06 GMT -5
I did, it was real erratic though. Never could get the .2 micro farad reading. Check the new one and it was dead on .2 I figure that the condenser was the problem but went ahead and changed both while I was in there. Now just have to clean up the case it was in and it will look like a new one. Just for info, what are these old saws worth in good shape. Was considering giving it to my father-in-law since his Stihl took a dump. He said it was in too good a shape to use it and I should put it up and keep it looking good. Figured they were made to use, but I may just keep it for looks. Just glad I got it to run. The pictures I took of it are to big to post so I will have to figure out how to reduce their size and post them as well. I'll work on that after my fishing trip today. Thanks for the update. I really like hearing about the real fix. Many times on this forum someone pops in with a saw problem, we feed a bunch of information and ideas, but the poster disappears and we don't here the outcome. There is tutorial in the forum help section for resizing pictures. There are other ways but since everyone who runs XP has Paint, I chose that program. Two meg. resolution is more than adequate for these saw pictures which will keep the file size small. We like pictures The value of these old Homelites is somewhat personal. Some don't like buying a obsolete product that will be hard to get service and parts. On the other hand, a saw in good condition that is taken care of will be fun to run and last a long time. My MCS is one of those examples. The problem is that it weights three times my Super EZ. |
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Post by 925fetish on Oct 3, 2009 14:03:34 GMT -5
i only put points back in one when there is no other choice otherwise i chip them all better spark more reliable and best of all easier p.s. alot of the time its cheaper oreilys them
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