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Post by james64 on Oct 6, 2023 18:57:30 GMT -5
 Greetings from Oklahoma. I have an XL Automatic that had a bad crankcase seal so I seperated the crankcase from the cylinder and cleaned everything up. I picked up new seals and I am ready to join the two assemblies together but I have one question. Do I apply a light coat of sealant around the outside of the seals or is it just the mating surfaces? |
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Post by blythkd on Oct 6, 2023 19:12:18 GMT -5
You can do it either way but I've driven many seals in dry. If you do put sealant on the seals, be careful to keep it out of the garter spring. A little goes a long way.
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Post by charliec on Oct 8, 2023 9:55:07 GMT -5
Just a quick thought.... I was just wondering why someone may want to pull and drive new crankcase seals on any XL family/series saw (e.g., XL, XL2 Little Red, Super 2, VI Super 2, etc) when only 4 screws hold the engine case two halves together. In other words, why risk damaging the crankcase housing during removal/install when you can spend maybe an extra 10 minutes and tear the whole unit apart to inspect the internals and clean-up subcomponents(e.g., bearings, thrust washers, burnt on oil in the piston ring landings, etc.). Perhaps even use a green scratch-brite type of material to put a fresh finish on the cylinder walls along with a new piston ring since you have gone this far... ha!. My thinking is this.... if the XL family/series saw needs new seals, chances are the saw and/or you will benefit (e.g., via higher compression/peace of mind knowing everything is clean/new) by going all the way and doing a full rebuild (cylinder refresh/hone and a new piston ring) especially if you have a little piston/cylinder damage/scoring/aluminum transfer showing via the exhaust port or lower than desired compression. Keep in mind that the specs on these XL family saws had a fairly low compression rating verses other larger saws with two piston rings(i.e., factory specs of 135 PSI vs 155 -160 for a SXL-AO or 185-190 psi for a 925).
Bottomline, If I need to change out the crankcase seals on an XL family/series saw (not the SXL/XL-12 saw family), why not do a complete tear down?. Just make sure you orientate the piston ring "pin" 180 degrees away from the exhaust port when you put it back together. I would like to hear/read other peoples' perspective on this topic (i.e., pro or con).
I have attached a link from Leon's Youtube channel (excellent video) that explains the process of rebuilding an XL family saw.
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Post by charliec on Oct 8, 2023 9:56:01 GMT -5
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Post by james64 on Oct 10, 2023 18:21:59 GMT -5
Just a quick thought.... I was just wondering why someone may want to pull and drive new crankcase seals on any XL family/series saw (e.g., XL, XL2 Little Red, Super 2, VI Super 2, etc) when only 4 screws hold the engine case two halves together. In other words, why risk damaging the crankcase housing during removal/install when you can spend maybe an extra 10 minutes and tear the whole unit apart to inspect the internals and clean-up subcomponents(e.g., bearings, thrust washers, burnt on oil in the piston ring landings, etc.). Perhaps even use a green scratch-brite type of material to put a fresh finish on the cylinder walls along with a new piston ring since you have gone this far... ha!. My thinking is this.... if the XL family/series saw needs new seals, chances are the saw and/or you will benefit (e.g., via higher compression/peace of mind knowing everything is clean/new) by going all the way and doing a full rebuild (cylinder refresh/hone and a new piston ring) especially if you have a little piston/cylinder damage/scoring/aluminum transfer showing via the exhaust port or lower than desired compression. Keep in mind that the specs on these XL family saws had a fairly low compression rating verses other larger saws with two piston rings(i.e., factory specs of 135 PSI vs 155 -160 for a SXL-AO or 185-190 psi for a 925). Bottomline, If I need to change out the crankcase seals on an XL family/series saw (not the SXL/XL-12 saw family), why not do a complete tear down?. Just make sure you orientate the piston ring "pin" 180 degrees away from the exhaust port when you put it back together. I would like to hear/read other peoples' perspective on this topic (i.e., pro or con). I have attached a link from Leon's Youtube channel (excellent video) that explains the process of rebuilding an XL family saw. I'm with you Charlie. I have always done my own engine work no matter what the engine is. On these little saws, it makes sense to do a complete teardown with a thorough cleaning of all the components. I ran the cylinder and lower crankcase through my bead blaster then a long soak in my ultrasonic. the two parts came out like new. Thankfully the cylinder and piston are in awesome shape so this saw will be a great runner when I get it put back together. The only reason I asked if I should put sealant around the outside of the oring is there was evidence of sealant around the outside of the old seals so I just wanted to be sure. I did replace the seals with new and sealed the crankcase with Motoseal. I also replaced the clutch drum and the snap ring that retains the clutch drum. I am confused about the flywheel that was on the saw. Looking up the part number that's on the flywheel shows it belongs to a super 2 (PN 10563) but this saw is an XL Automatic (UT10515A) and I haven't seen any IPL that shows the correct flywheel but there's no telling what has been done to this saw over the years. |
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Post by blythkd on Oct 10, 2023 19:07:19 GMT -5
XLs and Super 2s share many parts in common. Originally, the Super 2 had a larger bore and a longer handle with twin triggers. Other than that, they were mostly the same. But there have been many changes and derivatives of these models over the years, mainly the last few years.
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Post by james64 on Oct 10, 2023 19:13:14 GMT -5
I was wondering what the differences were between the the Super2, XL2, and the XL automatic. They all seem to share the same basic engine case.
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Post by blythkd on Oct 10, 2023 20:53:28 GMT -5
Yeah the XL had the shorter case and single trigger. The others had the handle extended in the rear with dual triggers. That's about it as far as the case goes.
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Post by onlyhomelites on Oct 10, 2023 21:05:33 GMT -5
You can do it either way but I've driven many seals in dry. If you do put sealant on the seals, be careful to keep it out of the garter spring. A little goes a long way. For whatever reason, I never had luck on this family of saws when it comes to driving seals! Two munched seals the first time I tried convinced me it was easier to split the crankcase; thankfully the seals were cheaper back then! |
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Post by james64 on Oct 10, 2023 21:10:30 GMT -5
You can do it either way but I've driven many seals in dry. If you do put sealant on the seals, be careful to keep it out of the garter spring. A little goes a long way. Ya I used an artist brush when I applied the sealant to the sealing surfaces. I put just a very thin layer around the outside of the seals |
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Post by blythkd on Oct 10, 2023 21:45:37 GMT -5
You can do it either way but I've driven many seals in dry. If you do put sealant on the seals, be careful to keep it out of the garter spring. A little goes a long way. For whatever reason, I never had luck on this family of saws when it comes to driving seals! Two munched seals the first time I tried convinced me it was easier to split the crankcase; thankfully the seals were cheaper back then! Hey, I never said I'd never munched one.....or two! Yeah life was a little easier way back then. When you screwed one up, just go to the parts bin and get another one! I drove many of them in ST-100 trimmers. They were a bit more involved to split. |
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Post by charliec on Oct 11, 2023 9:57:06 GMT -5
FYI,
While pricing on EVERYTHING these days is just crazy, I found that the pricing for the crankcase seals for a Super 2 (Homelite # 94638) varies dramatically between vendors. For example, LRB (Little Red Barn) which to many people including myself is a bad/nasty word (ha!) is selling these little guys for $24.95 for 2 seals (i.e., $12.47 ea.) plus shipping (pure greed/price gouging, my opinion) but at the other end of the spectrum..... Rockauto.com is selling the SKF 4913 (high quality seal) which is a direct replacement to the 94638 for $5.05 each (Best price I have found with no minimum purchase qty and good shipping costs). Yes, Rock auto is 59% less expensive for a quality product from SKF! On top of that... add in shipping (LRB via USPS to MN = $11.72 , quantity of 2 seals) vs. Rock auto ( shipping = $3.99 via USPS to MN). Add it all up.... LRB wants $36.67 vs. Rockauto at $14.09 delivered to MN.....
Just saying.... buyer beware!
Charlie
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Post by charliec on Oct 11, 2023 10:05:46 GMT -5
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Post by james64 on Oct 11, 2023 17:10:31 GMT -5
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Post by charliec on Oct 11, 2023 19:32:05 GMT -5
I hate to bust your chops... but...... If you bought 8 units at Rockauto.com at $5.08 each the shipping would have been $10.99 for a total of $51.63 or $6.45 each (i.e. 0.58 cents less per unit for a total savings of $4.64).
Charlie
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Post by james64 on Oct 11, 2023 19:57:11 GMT -5
thought shipping at Rock Auto was more than that. It's been a while since I ordered from them. Oh well, I'll remember that for when I need more seals.
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Post by james64 on Oct 11, 2023 19:59:43 GMT -5
If these saws don't quit mulitplying It will be no time before I'll need more seals. You have a source for the crank bearings? Those are pretty spendy on Ebay.
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Post by charliec on Oct 11, 2023 20:04:42 GMT -5
I just did a deeper dive on wheelerfleet.com. Wile their pricing on some items is good..... their shipping and handling cost for smaller purchases makes them prohibitive in my opinion (i.e. $12.99 minimum S&H). In other words, if you only bought 2 seals instead of 8 (i.e., I only needed/purchased 2 seals) the cost per unit would have been over $11 per seal when including S&H from Wheeler Fleet. The $3.99 shipping cost for 2 seals is a great price at Rockauto.com (my opinion).
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Post by james64 on Oct 11, 2023 20:11:27 GMT -5
I agree charlie. I should have checked them first.
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Post by charliec on Oct 11, 2023 20:20:21 GMT -5
James, I just sent you a private email via this message board.
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