XL (Diaphragm Oiler) Over-Oiling

[jsoluna]

Hey all,

I have an XL (UT10515) with the diaphragm style auto oiler and it is over oiling while running. Plumbing is all intact and new/correct. Proper gap at the tank pressure line duckbill/connector.

Is it possible that I would need to install the flow restrictor orifice in the suction line? I thought most of the over-oiling issues were with the direct-pressure oilers.

Thanks

Justin Soluna
Soluna Garage LLC

[Deleted]

How much oil is coming out? Are you seeing too much oil when it is at idle. That oiler is always pumping when the saw is running. They are supposed to throw a ton oil. I just finished my vi super 2 and the chain is spraying oil all over the freaking place.

[charliec]

Question, is the check ball in place? The check ball should be between the oil body and the spring check valve behind the plunger (i.e., inside the crankcase). I have never tested this theory but if the ball is somehow missing (i.e. previous repair mistake/oversight) this would potentially result in a constant flow of oil (my opinion, unproven theory). I have never personally taken these parts out of a XL family saw so I can't tell you how to get them out to verify.

Charlie

[jsoluna]

Mar 24, 2023 19:24:28 GMT -5 erch said:

How much oil is coming out? Are you seeing too much oil when it is at idle. That oiler is always pumping when the saw is running. They are supposed to throw a ton oil. I just finished my vi super 2 and the chain is spraying oil all over the freaking place.

Its slinging enough oil to soak the bottom of the case after a couple full throttle rips. I'll double check at idle and with the bar and chain removed.

[jsoluna]

Mar 24, 2023 19:31:10 GMT -5 charliec said:

Question, is the check ball in place? The check ball should be between the oil body and the spring check valve behind the plunger (i.e., inside the crankcase). I have never tested this theory but if the ball is somehow missing (i.e. previous repair mistake/oversight) this would potentially result in a constant flow of oil (my opinion, unproven theory). I have never personally taken these parts out of a XL family saw so I can't tell you how to get them out to verify.

Charlie

I haven't pulled the pump cover yet to inspect. Was curious if anyone has found the need to install the pre-filter orifice on the suction line as was needed with the direct pressure models.

[charliec]

These saws do pump a fair amount of oil as part of their normal operation. I have never heard of anyone adding the oil flow restricter unit that was installed in the direct pressure style oiler unit in a diaphragm oil pump line. If it was needed, I have no doubt Homelite would have installed it.

Chances are the oil flow that you perceive as "high Flow" is correct/normal and you will just have to get used to it.

[blythkd]

I don't recall anyone ever complaining of an XL with the diaphragm pump over oiling, now we've had 2 reports of this condition in the past couple weeks. As hard as the diaphragms are to come by now, and pricey when you do find one, if its oiling I would leave it alone unless it's emptying the oil tank before running out of gas.

[jsoluna]

Mar 24, 2023 21:35:15 GMT -5 blythkd said:

I don't recall anyone ever complaining of an XL with the diaphragm pump over oiling, now we've had 2 reports of this condition in the past couple weeks. As hard as the diaphragms are to come by now, and pricey when you do find one, if its oiling I would leave it alone unless it's emptying the oil tank before running out of gas.

I will double check the output with the bar and chain removed and then also with just the chain removed. I'm wondering if it is leaking between the bar pad and bar, or if it is really over-oiling.

It may be normal, but I haven't had enough of these saws to know. I guess that's a other real question. What is normal?

[undee70ss]

Mar 25, 2023 1:50:13 GMT -5 jsoluna said:

Mar 24, 2023 21:35:15 GMT -5 blythkd said:

I don't recall anyone ever complaining of an XL with the diaphragm pump over oiling, now we've had 2 reports of this condition in the past couple weeks. As hard as the diaphragms are to come by now, and pricey when you do find one, if its oiling I would leave it alone unless it's emptying the oil tank before running out of gas.

I will double check the output with the bar and chain removed and then also with just the chain removed. I'm wondering if it is leaking between the bar pad and bar, or if it is really over-oiling.

It may be normal, but I haven't had enough of these saws to know. I guess that's an other real question. What is normal?

Normal is a tank of fuel used to a tank of oil

[Deleted]

Out of curiosity, what size bar are you running? I believe the XL can take up to a 16 inch bar. If you run a small bar, like I do, you're going to notice more oil flying around and building up in the case. Put the saw into some wood and you won't have oil all over unless you leave it idle. I limit my idle time as much as possible with all my homelites because of the constant oiling.

[jsoluna]

Mar 25, 2023 4:49:34 GMT -5 erch said:

Out of curiosity, what size bar are you running? I believe the XL can take up to a 16 inch bar. If you run a small bar, like I do, you're going to notice more oil flying around and building up in the case. Put the saw into some wood and you won't have oil all over unless you leave it idle. I limit my idle time as much as possible with all my homelites because of the constant oiling.

I have recently upgraded to a 14" bar for the XL. I did not consider the idle time issue, I'm sure that contributes. I just have a hard time believing that the saw was designed to flow so much oil that it would saturate the case under any circumstances, but again I am new to these little guys.

I will update as I get further into the diagnosis. My understanding of the system is that it uses crankcase pulse to both move the pump diaphragm/plunger and pressurize the oil tank. The maximum metering/flow of oil is fixed by the stroke of the plunger. This differs from the direct pressure oilers in that they just have the orifice on the oil feed line to meter. Otherwise, both systems use tank pressure force oil into the feed line and out to the bar.

My thought is that if I do determine it is over-oiling for whatever reason, not just seeping out the pump vent or between the bar and pad, then as a workaround I can install the oil feed line orifice to add in a secondary metering device to help control the flow.

[Deleted]

Put that saw into some wood. Keep checking the oil level in the tank and the fuel level. Like undee70ss stated in the above post, one tank of oil is used as one tank of fuel is consumed. Just keep a close eye on it while cutting.

[jsoluna]

Mar 25, 2023 6:12:54 GMT -5 erch said:

Put that saw into some wood. Keep checking the oil level in the tank and the fuel level. Like undee70ss stated in the above post, one tank of oil is used as one tank of fuel is consumed. Just keep a close eye on it while cutting.

Thank you. I will do as you say and post back with my findings.

[ibmike]

I jsoluna, I had the same issue with my Super2. Let the oil flow, your bar and chain will thank you for it. These Gentlemen around here know their stuff.

[jsoluna]

I have fixed the issue temporarily. The unit was using more oil than fuel, at about 50% more.

I found that the pump diaphragm was compromised. I believe this would cause a lack of lubrication, not an excess. However, I also noticed that when installing the pump diaphragm/plunger assembly that it had some preload on the pump ball and spring when fully installed. This didn't seem right to me, but maybe that is how they all are. The valve on this unit effectively would not not fully seat closed in it's normal or resting condition.

My fix for now was to convert the unit to direct pressure by removing the plunger and diaphragm assembly and capping off the pump inlet and outlet ports, then reinstalling the pump cover.

I made a fixed .045 orifice to fit into the oil tank line and plumbed the line directly to the bar pad, effectively bypassing the diaphragm pump assembly.

It now is not blowing oil all over the case and under the cylinder head but is properly oiling. Good workaround for now. Still on the fence on whether to keep it as a direct pressure/fixed orifice system or restore to original condition. I would need to install the proper check valve filter in the tank line if I keep it direct pressure. For now I just unscrew the oil cap before storing to allow tank pressure to bleed off manually.

[Deleted]

That's a real bummer it's not working properly. Congrats on your work around. That's really nice work!!! Someone will chime in with different ideas for you, but at least you can use it if you need to.

[jsoluna]

Lot of effort for a little saw but it's a learning process. Having issues eventually leads to a better understanding of how the unit should work. I really do enjoy using this saw, too. It's just the perfect size for most small tasks.

[blythkd]

Now you can sell the plunger/diaphragm:)

[jsoluna]

Well, if the diaphragm weren't broken, I could. That was what I meant by "compromised." You can see through the membrane.

[Deleted]

Are you satisfied with the way it is working now? Unless that saw has some special meaning to you and you want to keep it original with the diaphragm. My old parts XL has a diaphragm, I could pull the parts for you. Personally, I wouldn't put any money into your saw unless it has sentimental value.