The Demise of Homelite

[homelite750]

So, I was looking on Leon’s site last night under More… Homelite Literature & Information… Ads & Articles and also the Sawdust Newsletter. A question came to mind about what the factors were for the demise of Homelite. The ads I saw showed a company with great momentum. The Sawdust newsletter showed dealer trips to resorts and such. I had heard that Textron wanted to concentrate more on the aviation side of its business, but does anyone know of any stories from maybe former Homelite employees or dealers or are there any former Homelite employees or dealers on HOH? Or is there anything that anyone knows here that they would be willing to share? Thanks!

[lesorubcheek]

This is a great topic and I've often had the same question. Can't speak from any personal involvement with Homelite, but will share the ideas gleaned from reading information over time that I imagine many others have also seen. One big factor was foreign competition. Husqvarna, stihl, Jonsereds, Alpina, Partner.... the list goes on and on of great saws that were competing with and many times outperforming Homelite saws during the 70s and 80s. Hey, I personally love the Homelite Pro series. My dad's 350 is the saw that started my addiction, but there's alot of information about the problems associated with these saws, particularly at their introduction. Speculation only, but I think the Homelite engineers were caught flat-footed with the designs of the imports and were forced to try to match or exceed them. Selling a saw that earns a bad reputation can really hurt the image of the company.

Another thing that I think hurt was they started putting more and more emphasis into homeowner equipment. Hey, sure a business wants to make products to appeal to the largest market segment if profit is the focus, but truth is you'll lose the respect and customer base from the professional arborists and loggers if the product's quality declines. We all know Homelite had generators, brush cutters, circular saws and even a harvester based on the XL-12. Heck, there was even the brush cutter based their older saws, but these were a relatively small segment of the market through the 60s, or well, at least I'd think so based on the number of these you see people selling these days. Oh, and yes Homelite still sold generators throughout their lifetime that weren't based on an XL-12, but it was the chainsaws that seem to have been the focus. Once the 80s rolled around, there was much more assorted types of homeowner focused OPE, and the best saws at the end of the 80s were arguably the 410 and 540/8800, both of which have had many discussions regarding European engineering assistance. I won't touch the whole Solo debate, but lots of evidence shows in-house Homelite engineers didn't fully design these saws. It just seemed like they had stretched themselves too far and quality saws just were no longer the company's priority.

Again, just personal opinion based on reading topics over time. McCulloch shared a parallel path, and would guess their fate was for similar reasons, but never read too much about their business evolution. Always sad to see the end of an American legacy that you'd think would last forever.

Dan

[charles]

To further add , in the 80s and 90s , mechanical harvesting was coming on strong , at least in the southeast , which further reduced the 

need for Pro level saws . 

Charles

[blythkd]

I was out of the Homelite game at the time of their demise but conventional wisdom seems to suggest that once John Deere got ahold of them, they just pocketed all the cash they could and did not reinvest anything in the future. Most of their saw platforms were outdated and not something that would take them into the future. Without reinvestment into new saw designs, the only way to go seemed to be down. Of course we still see cheap throwaway homeowner versions in Home Depot but they must be made in China, or at least that's what they look like.

[edju1958]

I did a similar write up on the demise of Homelite (and other saw mfgrs.) about 4 yrs.ago.I can't find the thread right now,but I'll keep looking.

Edit:I found it.

houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/8146/contributed-demise-homelite

[homelite750]

Sept 17, 2022 12:51:02 GMT -5 lesorubcheek said:

This is a great topic and I've often had the same question. Can't speak from any personal involvement with Homelite, but will share the ideas gleaned from reading information over time that I imagine many others have also seen. One big factor was foreign competition. Husqvarna, stihl, Jonsereds, Alpina, Partner.... the list goes on and on of great saws that were competing with and many times outperforming Homelite saws during the 70s and 80s. Hey, I personally love the Homelite Pro series. My dad's 350 is the saw that started my addiction, but there's alot of information about the problems associated with these saws, particularly at their introduction. Speculation only, but I think the Homelite engineers were caught flat-footed with the designs of the imports and were forced to try to match or exceed them. Selling a saw that earns a bad reputation can really hurt the image of the company.

Another thing that I think hurt was they started putting more and more emphasis into homeowner equipment. Hey, sure a business wants to make products to appeal to the largest market segment if profit is the focus, but truth is you'll lose the respect and customer base from the professional arborists and loggers if the product's quality declines. We all know Homelite had generators, brush cutters, circular saws and even a harvester based on the XL-12. Heck, there was even the brush cutter based their older saws, but these were a relatively small segment of the market through the 60s, or well, at least I'd think so based on the number of these you see people selling these days. Oh, and yes Homelite still sold generators throughout their lifetime that weren't based on an XL-12, but it was the chainsaws that seem to have been the focus. Once the 80s rolled around, there was much more assorted types of homeowner focused OPE, and the best saws at the end of the 80s were arguably the 410 and 540/8800, both of which have had many discussions regarding European engineering assistance. I won't touch the whole Solo debate, but lots of evidence shows in-house Homelite engineers didn't fully design these saws. It just seemed like they had stretched themselves too far and quality saws just were no longer the company's priority.

Again, just personal opinion based on reading topics over time. McCulloch shared a parallel path, and would guess their fate was for similar reasons, but never read too much about their business evolution. Always sad to see the end of an American legacy that you'd think would last forever.

Dan

Thanks Dan for your insights. Competition was certainly a factor. Someone was definitely asleep at the wheel. Also, I wonder if the 360 replaced your 350 due to those problems you spoke of? The 360 I have which was my grandfather’s saw was run long and hard for many years. 

[homelite750]

Sept 17, 2022 19:09:28 GMT -5 blythkd said:

I was out of the Homelite game at the time of their demise but conventional wisdom seems to suggest that once John Deere got ahold of them, they just pocketed all the cash they could and did not reinvest anything in the future. Most of their saw platforms were outdated and not something that would take them into the future. Without reinvestment into new saw designs, the only way to go seemed to be down. Of course we still see cheap throwaway homeowner versions in Home Depot but they must be made in China, or at least that's what they look like.

I certainly blame John Deere to a point…JD did sell to a Chinese outfit in 2001, TTI. At least I’m glad JD switched the logo from HOMELITE to Homelite. If I see lower case Homelite on something I run the other way. Funny story, I remember the last Homelite saw my grandfather and uncle bought. Late 90s I think.  It was a Homelite 20. I still remember hearing my grandfather cussing about how much of a piece of crap it was compared to the 360 and 750 (both of which I now have) I found it in the chicken coop a few years back and chucked it in the trash.

[homelite750]

Sept 17, 2022 19:48:27 GMT -5 edju1958 said:

I did a similar write up on the demise of Homelite (and other saw mfgrs.) about 4 yrs.ago.I can't find the thread right now,but I'll keep looking.

Edit:I found it.

houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/8146/contributed-demise-homelite

Thanks for sharing Ed. I’m starting to read through some of the posts now.

[homelite750]

Sept 17, 2022 23:01:14 GMT -5 homelite750 said:

Sept 17, 2022 19:48:27 GMT -5 edju1958 said:

I did a similar write up on the demise of Homelite (and other saw mfgrs.) about 4 yrs.ago.I can't find the thread right now,but I'll keep looking.

Edit:I found it.

houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/8146/contributed-demise-homelite

Thanks for sharing Ed. I’m starting to read through some of the posts now.

Wow. A very interesting article. Looks like Deere did an about face even though they apparently had the newer technology developed and even licensed it to Stihl. Someone at Deere decided at the end of the day that it was a playground they didn’t want to play in and sold Homelite off. 

[jselden78]

As mentioned it seems Homelite had a good bit of competition prior to the John Deere takeover. At times this competition put a better product on the market. I'm not defending John Deere by any means but if you look at the move of the global markets at the time they purchased Homelite, it would have been a very tough hill to climb. Along with the competition building lighter and faster saws, along came NAFTA. Homelite really didn't have much in the way of overseas production but numerous competitors did. Some competitors either had manufacturing facilities or purchased components from Mexico and South America. This would have increased the pressure on Deere to improve update designs and do so at much lower costs. Often updating designs does not come with a low cost benefit in the beginning.

[lesorubcheek]

Sept 17, 2022 19:48:27 GMT -5 edju1958 said:

I did a similar write up on the demise of Homelite (and other saw mfgrs.) about 4 yrs.ago.I can't find the thread right now,but I'll keep looking.

Edit:I found it.

houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/8146/contributed-demise-homelite

Great reading there Ed. I missed that one, need to pay more attention. Further proof that we don't live in a true free market society, but a government-regulated-bureaucratic-back-scratching-under-the-table-crony-capitalist type of society (all reflections on the government, not necessarily the people of course). So many examples such as HVAC refrigerants, automotive standards, and now a push to go all electric for cars. I mean, nothing at all wrong if a person decides they want one, but for a government to push the agenda just seems, well un-American. Just let people decide what they want and quit telling them what they must choose. Apologies for getting political, but this stuff sorta gets me just a bit aggravated.

Dan

[lesorubcheek]

Sept 17, 2022 22:47:07 GMT -5 homelite750 said:

Thanks Dan for your insights. Competition was certainly a factor. Someone was definitely asleep at the wheel. Also, I wonder if the 360 replaced your 350 due to those problems you spoke of? The 360 I have which was my grandfather’s saw was run long and hard for many years. 

Thank you for starting the topic. From what I've read, the earliest 350s had all kinds of problems. These may have been distributed in a limited market, not sure, but certain points hinted at that. Anyway, it looks like these first ones were recalled and there was something like a 20 point improvement makeover. After that they marketed these under the "Gold Standard" program guaranteeing their quality, but continued selling them as a 350. Not sure of the exact timeline, but think it was maybe a year after proper introduction of 350s that they changed them to 360s. The only thing that comes to mind that was really different was the 350s intake had only 2 screws (diagonal) and the 360s had 4 (one at each corner). Likely a few other odds and ends too in addition to the label, but they were very similar. Guess they hoped this would give the appearance the saw had been improved and any previous problems were addressed. Fact is my dad's 350 was always a very nice saw. Never really had any out the ordinary problems with it.

Dan

[homelite750]

Sept 18, 2022 13:59:52 GMT -5 jselden78 said:

As mentioned it seems Homelite had a good bit of competition prior to the John Deere takeover. At times this competition put a better product on the market. I'm not defending John Deere by any means but if you look at the move of the global markets at the time they purchased Homelite, it would have been a very tough hill to climb. Along with the competition building lighter and faster saws, along came NAFTA. Homelite really didn't have much in the way of overseas production but numerous competitors did. Some competitors either had manufacturing facilities or purchased components from Mexico and South America. This would have increased the pressure on Deere to improve update designs and do so at much lower costs. Often updating designs does not come with a low cost benefit in the beginning.

Another very valid point, John. Homelite was dug in like a tick stateside whereas many other companies had cheaper labor/workforces elsewhere. It does seem that from 1994 when John Deere bought Homelite that things were changing in the market very quickly with the overseas labor, production, and emissions requirements etc. and was becoming more of a problem for U.S. manufacturing. 

[charliec]

First off, I agree with a large portion if not all the comments written above by my fellow House of Homelite members. I reiterate and use many of the same points in my perspective.

Therefore, in my opinion, the demise of Homelite started in the late 70’s and early 80’s but it took 6 to 8 years to start showing up in their products (i.e., chainsaws). There were multiple external and internal issues that when combined made the perfect storm for their eventual failure.
From an external perspective; Ed was kind enough to point out and provide a link to a Fortune 500 article, regarding State and Federal Government regulations coming down the pike with respect to emissions. Then there is the foreign/domestic competition via the likes of Stihl, Husky, Poulan, Alpine, Jonsered, Solo, Remington, Echo, McCulloch, etc. As Charles pointed out, the timber industry was changing due to farm harvesting (see link below of large harvesting equipment). Granted, this is all about “tree farming” (i.e., planted trees for harvesting on flat land) but again, a newer trend at the time. Old School loggers with big saws will always be needed for sloped/rough terrain and/or large diameter trees. Side note, I like to watch the tv show Big Timber on Netflix (family run logging/lumber yard in B.C., Kiltsa Mountain). The show does repeat itself to fill in the storyline/minutes but the scenery and jobsite scenes make it worth the occasional watch.

Now let me state up front, this is my opinion using historical perspective, some simple logic and 30+ years working in corporate America. Having stated that, the final nails in the coffin came from inside the corporation. Basically, Homelite lost its “heart/power/focus”. The company was started by one man with a vision to make gas powered electric generators (Founder: Charles Furguson, company founded: 1921, see link below to company history via Wikipedia). The company started making chainsaws in 1946 (i.e., electric model). The company was relatively small but was growing. In that type of environment (i.e., growing in size with innovation coursing through its veins) I have no doubt it attracted young talented engineers that wanted to design bigger better things (i.e., the best engineers always want to design and build better things). In the 1950’s they were bought by Textron (larger company) this provided the company greater flexibility to grow the market due to greater financial security/backing. By the mid 1960’s they were the largest chainsaw manufacturer in the US. During the 1970’s they were on top of their game producing multiple professional level logging saws. The 1980s saw fewer professional grade saws and the “consumer” side of the production capacity growing larger (i.e., lower cost/quality). However, there were a few bright spots like the Homelite 410 as my fellow commenter Lesorbcheek mentioned in his earlier comments.
The original Homelite chainsaw management team (1950s –1960’s new hires) including the engineers were well into their careers and had either retired, preparing to do so or moved on to other employment (i.e., the “Heart” of the company). Now skip forward to John Deere ownership (1993 – 2001). The second wave of Homelite management and engineers had to play in a whole new environment working for a large conglomerate with multiple lines of business all vying for $$$ and attention. They were the new small fish in the big corporate pond. They had little political or financial say/clout in the big corporate picture. Their sales languished and profits went the same way. Note, John Deere had their own branded chainsaws (green in color) for a number of years including the years they owned Homelite. Those saws were made by the likes of Echo, Remington, and Efco. The big box stores like Home Depot, Lowes, etc. were basically dictating the price point to Homelite of their ever increasing production of consumer model saws (e.g., XL series saws). Then Techtronics (Hong Kong, HQ) buys the Homelite brand in 2001 and they are done! Their focus becomes 100% the consumer level marketplace (i.e., cheap plastic consumer “Home/Garden” equipment). Granted there was some parts cross over in the John Deere years but not like the new Techtronics world (e.g., Robyi) with outsourcing engine manufacturing to the lowest bidder (again, my opinion based upon what I have seen of their more recent equipment). Yes, in the early years, Homelite used some AC/Delco branded parts among others but that was just normal supply chain operations (e.g., why build from scratch if you can buy good products at a fair price).

Unfortunately, this is not the only company that went through this business lifecycle nor will they be the last. A sad epitaph of a once great company formally known as Homelite/Textron.

Just my two cents worth!


Charlie

P.S., Thanks to homelite 750 for starting this thread/discussion.



Harvesting Equipment:

video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=large+timber+harvesting+equipment&type=E211US1494G0#id=1&vid=e8fa627da49cf1ea580bb63d17ff2df8&action=click


History of Homelite:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelite_Corporation

[homelite750]

Sept 20, 2022 11:57:47 GMT -5 charliec said:

First off, I agree with a large portion if not all the comments written above by my fellow House of Homelite members. I reiterate and use many of the same points in my perspective.

Therefore, in my opinion, the demise of Homelite started in the late 70’s and early 80’s but it took 6 to 8 years to start showing up in their products (i.e., chainsaws). There were multiple external and internal issues that when combined made the perfect storm for their eventual failure.
From an external perspective; Ed was kind enough to point out and provide a link to a Fortune 500 article, regarding State and Federal Government regulations coming down the pike with respect to emissions. Then there is the foreign/domestic competition via the likes of Stihl, Husky, Poulan, Alpine, Jonsered, Solo, Remington, Echo, McCulloch, etc. As Charles pointed out, the timber industry was changing due to farm harvesting (see link below of large harvesting equipment). Granted, this is all about “tree farming” (i.e., planted trees for harvesting on flat land) but again, a newer trend at the time. Old School loggers with big saws will always be needed for sloped/rough terrain and/or large diameter trees. Side note, I like to watch the tv show Big Timber on Netflix (family run logging/lumber yard in B.C., Kiltsa Mountain). The show does repeat itself to fill in the storyline/minutes but the scenery and jobsite scenes make it worth the occasional watch.

Now let me state up front, this is my opinion using historical perspective, some simple logic and 30+ years working in corporate America. Having stated that, the final nails in the coffin came from inside the corporation. Basically, Homelite lost its “heart/power/focus”. The company was started by one man with a vision to make gas powered electric generators (Founder: Charles Furguson, company founded: 1921, see link below to company history via Wikipedia). The company started making chainsaws in 1946 (i.e., electric model). The company was relatively small but was growing. In that type of environment (i.e., growing in size with innovation coursing through its veins) I have no doubt it attracted young talented engineers that wanted to design bigger better things (i.e., the best engineers always want to design and build better things). In the 1950’s they were bought by Textron (larger company) this provided the company greater flexibility to grow the market due to greater financial security/backing. By the mid 1960’s they were the largest chainsaw manufacturer in the US. During the 1970’s they were on top of their game producing multiple professional level logging saws. The 1980s saw fewer professional grade saws and the “consumer” side of the production capacity growing larger (i.e., lower cost/quality). However, there were a few bright spots like the Homelite 410 as my fellow commenter Lesorbcheek mentioned in his earlier comments.
The original Homelite chainsaw management team (1950s –1960’s new hires) including the engineers were well into their careers and had either retired, preparing to do so or moved on to other employment (i.e., the “Heart” of the company). Now skip forward to John Deere ownership (1993 – 2001). The second wave of Homelite management and engineers had to play in a whole new environment working for a large conglomerate with multiple lines of business all vying for $$$ and attention. They were the new small fish in the big corporate pond. They had little political or financial say/clout in the big corporate picture. Their sales languished and profits went the same way. Note, John Deere had their own branded chainsaws (green in color) for a number of years including the years they owned Homelite. Those saws were made by the likes of Echo, Remington, and Efco. The big box stores like Home Depot, Lowes, etc. were basically dictating the price point to Homelite of their ever increasing production of consumer model saws (e.g., XL series saws). Then Techtronics (Hong Kong, HQ) buys the Homelite brand in 2001 and they are done! Their focus becomes 100% the consumer level marketplace (i.e., cheap plastic consumer “Home/Garden” equipment). Granted there was some parts cross over in the John Deere years but not like the new Techtronics world (e.g., Robyi) with outsourcing engine manufacturing to the lowest bidder (again, my opinion based upon what I have seen of their more recent equipment). Yes, in the early years, Homelite used some AC/Delco branded parts among others but that was just normal supply chain operations (e.g., why build from scratch if you can buy good products at a fair price).

Unfortunately, this is not the only company that went through this business lifecycle nor will they be the last. A sad epitaph of a once great company formally known as Homelite/Textron.

Just my two cents worth!


Charlie

P.S., Thanks to homelite 750 for starting this thread/discussion.



Harvesting Equipment:

video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&ei=UTF-8&p=large+timber+harvesting+equipment&type=E211US1494G0#id=1&vid=e8fa627da49cf1ea580bb63d17ff2df8&action=click


History of Homelite:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelite_Corporation

Thanks Charlie, Some very good insights. I guess if Homelite was still around (in its former glory) we might not all be here keeping the dream alive. It’s an blessing to have the same saw (Homelite 360) that my uncle used to cut down so many trees over the years to heat his house and my grandparents house on the family farm back in the 80s and 90s. The story of how I found it is for another thread. 

[rarefish383]

This is my Dad's brand new 72 Chevy Custom C 30. It hadn't been lettered yet. That's me when I was 16, in my brothers field jacket. Before I was old enough to run saws he used Mac's. By the time he bought the Chevy, and I started working for him, he had switched to all Homelites. The first saw I ever used on a job was his Super 1050 with a 36" bar. I still have that 1050, and it now has a 45" bar on it I got from Greg a few years ago. All of our climbers used Super EZ's. XL 12 series saws were our ground saws. I was going through his old owners manuals and found the receipt for an XL925, but I don't remember that one. Must have been on the "A" crew. When I was in college I had classes M,W, and F, and I ran the "B" crew on T,Th, and Sat. The "B" crew was mostly contract climbers that had worked for us in the past, but were semi retired. By the time I got out of school Dad had tried some Echo's and liked them, and had switched to Poulan 25's for climbers. Sitting here now, when Dad retired in 1986, I can't remember ever seeing a Stihl, Husky, JRed, or Pioneer. But, I found some Pioneer receipts in his papers, so he must have tried them. He didn't stay brand specific because one maker was miles ahead of the others, but because he didn't want to get into taking saws to different shops all over town. When the 330, 360, and that series of saws came out, I didn't like them. Except the 750, I liked it.When Dad retired I let the business go. I'd worked 3 years straight and never took off a single day. I had a friend that had been with UPS since the 60's and he had 6 weeks vacation. That lured me away. I did side work and contract climbing into my 50's. But, now I miss all of my Homelites, but nothing else. My wife says I'm misserable to live with if I don't run a saw for an hour a day. I still haven't had time to play with the KMS-4 Rotary.