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Post by mikem on Jun 27, 2009 20:54:57 GMT -5
Recently I purchased an SXL/XL12 ignition module(used) to put in an XL12. No spark in the XL12 from the used module. Using the tutorial, I tested the coil secondary side and it is good(9K OHMS). The switch,spark plug wire & points test good. The following is the condenser test:
1) O'meter is set to highest OHM rating. Condenser is OFF the ignition plate. With the red lead on the condenser wire and the black lead on the condenser case, the O'meter very slowly(1/10 of an OHM every 2 seconds) gains OHMs but does not fall off.
2) Same procedure as above but with the condenser ON the ignition plate. O'Meter registers open(Infinity ?) with no gain.
Am I right to assume the condenser is shorted internally to the case ? Will a bad condenser kill a spark ? Thanks for your insight.
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Post by MCS on Jun 27, 2009 22:22:50 GMT -5
Something is wrong with your procedure because you should get similar readings. The biggest problem with using an ohm meter on its highest ohm scale is it is easy to get false reading because you can get a reading from your body. Do this, lick your fingers and then grab your meter tips. You will read your body resistance, usually between 300k and 500k ohms. When you do the condenser test on the plate the condenser cannot be connected to the point block because you will have the primary side of the coil in parallel with the condenser. Try this, with the condenser in your hand and pinched between the thumb and forefinger and the black meter lead under your thumb, touch the red meter lead to the condenser wire. Let only the meter lead tip touch the wire - keep your fingers on the probe insulated section. The meter should go to infinity in about a second. Now, leave the condenser wire floating in the air and slip the red wire under you thumb and remove the black one. Now touch the black meter lead tip to the condenser wire. You should see a momentary low ohm reading but then it should go back to infinity in a second. Do this several times to get the hang of it.
If you do this with the condenser mounted on the plate, the wire has to be disconnected from the point block. Only the meter lead tip can touch the condenser wire.
If the reading doesn't go to infinity then the condenser is leaking. It you don't see the swing, then the condenser is open.
Most digital meters have a 2000k (2 megohm) setting. Is that what you have?
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Post by mikem on Jun 27, 2009 23:44:37 GMT -5
Thanks Craig....O'Meter is at the farm. I will test again according to your instructions and report tomorrow.
Michael
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Post by mikem on Jun 28, 2009 17:19:10 GMT -5
The meter I am using was set to the 20M scale. I get no reading(open) from the meter set at the 2M scale. Using the procedure you outlined above, at the 20M setting on the meter, with the black lead held on the condenser case between thumb and forefinger and just touching the red lead to the condenser wire, the meter dial(digital) will increase slowly but does not reach I(infinity) until 1 minute 15 seconds later. The same test with the meter leads reversed yields the same result except the meter takes almost 3 minutes to reach Infinity. Now....with the condenser mounted on the ignition plate and the lead disconnected from the point block. Meter at the same scale(20M). Results are the same as holding the condenser in my hand while off the ignition plate. It appears the condenser takes much longer than it should to reach Infinity when the meter leads are connected. I am not sure what is going on  ?? You know...I am not afraid of tackling anything mechanical on these saws but the electrical side really gets my blood boiling....along with 105 heat in central Texas  . If you have to spend $10 on a condenser....why not toss in another $7 and convert it to a solid state "pointless & condenserless" system ? Michael |
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Post by MCS on Jun 28, 2009 22:35:13 GMT -5
It appears the condenser takes much longer than it should to reach Infinity when the meter leads are connected. I am not sure what is going on ?? Michael You have a bad condenser  I know you were swapping parts when you started this, what happened to the condenser that was on the original ignition plate? Regarding the Solid State conversion, are you thinking of getting one of those little magic chips where you remove the points and condenser but use the original coil? I have one but never gave it a try. |
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Post by mikem on Jun 29, 2009 10:16:28 GMT -5
After reading your last post about the condenser "unloading" in a second or less...I thought it may be bad so I ordered another one. The spare ignition module is a Phellon..the original is a Wico. The condenser mounts differently on the two plates. The coils are different as well...the hole in the middle of the coil are different sizes and will not interchange. You can interchange the entire ignition modules but not the parts. Members beware of ignition parts advertised that will fit either an SXL or XL12 w/ points ignition. It depends on the type of ignition you have ...Wico or Phellon. I suppose having the correct UT number may have eliminated the confusion but the numbers are rubbed off on both saws.
Yes I was considering one of those "magic chips" that replaces the points and condenser. Does anyone have any experience with these "solid state conversions"?
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Post by cbfarmall on Jul 1, 2009 12:44:40 GMT -5
Those aftermarket ignition modules work great. It does seem like hocus-pocus, but I've used the same module (Atom Brown module) on a Stihl 028 and 031, Mac SP125, 890, 101B kart engine, and my Homelite 3100. And, at $16 it sure is cheaper than new points and a condensor. Plus, you don't have to fool with the flywheel.
Down side is there are a few ignitions not compatible. The Stihl 090 is one, I think. Flywheels with extra magnets for heater systems. I think all Homelites are OK.
Chris B.
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Post by mikem on Jul 1, 2009 13:37:00 GMT -5
Those aftermarket ignition modules work great. It does seem like hocus-pocus, but I've used the same module (Atom Brown module) on a Stihl 028 and 031, Mac SP125, 890, 101B kart engine, and my Homelite 3100. And, at $16 it sure is cheaper than new points and a condensor. Plus, you don't have to fool with the flywheel. Down side is there are a few ignitions not compatible. The Stihl 090 is one, I think. Flywheels with extra magnets for heater systems. I think all Homelites are OK. Chris B. Thanks Chris. I guess I don't understand how those pointless modules are mounted. Are you saying you do not have to remove the flywheel to mount it ? I figured you had to remove the old points and use the old holes to mount the new module.  |
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Post by cbfarmall on Jul 1, 2009 16:39:23 GMT -5
Nope, the kit is complete. Comes with the module, little mounting bracket, a strip of plastic for the coil air gap, a gauge for the plug gap, and wire nuts.
All I've ever done is mount the bracket to a coil mounting screw (4 to choose from on a 3100!). One of the module leads splices to the coil-points wire and the other is chassis grounded thru the bracket. Just make sure the kill wire is connected so you can shut it down.
If I get time tomorrow, I'll pull down the 3100 and snap a picture of the module.
In the meantime bantasawDOTcom has the kit. I try to keep 1 or 2 on hand.
Chris B.
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Post by cbfarmall on Jul 1, 2009 16:41:54 GMT -5
To address your specific concern, you do not have to mess with the flywheel. Just cut the points wire as long as you need and hook it to the module. If it bothers you, you can pull the flywheel and remove all the points stuff, but I never have unless I was already there for some other reason.
Chris B.
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Post by MCS on Jul 1, 2009 18:39:57 GMT -5
I had a SXL with a bad Blue Coil. This is the second time I've had one of these go bad. I took a point box from a XL-12 that I've been working on and mounted it on the SXL along with a coil. I had ordered one of those magic modules awhile back so I thought I'd try it since I don't have any points.  Well I'll be..it worked  Sometimes I find the ignition coil core riveted to the ignition plate so that may present some problem finding a place to mount this module. If you don't pull the wire from the points to the coil primary, make sure it will not rub on the bottom of the flywheel. I think the timing is a little bit advanced because it fired once and pulled the starter handle out of my hand. After that, I make sure I have a good grip and give it a hefty pull. |
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Post by mikem on Jul 1, 2009 22:34:56 GMT -5
Pretty keen setup. If a coil core is riveted to the ignition plate, could you mount the module elsewhere on the saw ? I suppose you could drill out a rivet and replace it w/ a bolt. Craig...Is that the Atom Brown module that Chris mentioned that is installed on your saw ?
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Post by MCS on Jul 1, 2009 23:23:03 GMT -5
It is not an ATOM. I was on the ATOM web site and they don't make the module any longer. Atom's patented Electronic Ignition System was originally made for the Atom Chainsaw. Patents have now expired but its (previously patented) circuitry is now used by others on many engines in Europe, USA and Asia. The Atom Ignition Module was also developed as a spare part to replace mechanical breaker points and condenser for magneto ignition engines, and until Atom's production ceased in 2005, many millions had been sold worldwide. I don't remember for sure where I got the one I have but here is a link. tewarehouse.com/IGNITION-MODULE_2I was out and started that saw again and man, does it kick back. Tomorrow, I'm going to increase the flywheel to core gap to .015 just to see what happens. It's a bugger to start but once runnig seems OK |
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Post by mikem on Jul 17, 2009 21:33:28 GMT -5
It is not an ATOM. I was on the ATOM web site and they don't make the module any longer. Atom's patented Electronic Ignition System was originally made for the Atom Chainsaw. Patents have now expired but its (previously patented) circuitry is now used by others on many engines in Europe, USA and Asia. The Atom Ignition Module was also developed as a spare part to replace mechanical breaker points and condenser for magneto ignition engines, and until Atom's production ceased in 2005, many millions had been sold worldwide. I don't remember for sure where I got the one I have but here is a link. tewarehouse.com/IGNITION-MODULE_2I was out and started that saw again and man, does it kick back. Tomorrow, I'm going to increase the flywheel to core gap to .015 just to see what happens. It's a bugger to start but once runnig seems OK Craig...did this solve the kickback problem. If so ....how did you increase the flywheel to core gap ? Does this retard the spark ? |
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Post by MCS on Jul 17, 2009 22:50:04 GMT -5
After I installed the magic module, the saw was tough to start unless you had it held down well and gave it a hefty pull. I opened the flywheel gap to .015" and drilled an extra hole in the point box so I could rotate is as much as possible. My math calculations showed a 3 deg. change in timing - not that much. I've learned that I just have to be firm with the pulls, no wimpy ones, or it will kick back. It is a nice running saw and I think it is a screamer compared to my other one. I'm going to move the 18" bar to this one. I had it out today cutting a down oak that was about 14" in diameter - used most of that 16" bar - and it never complained. I'm thinking of ordering a couple more of those magic modules ;D
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Post by mikem on Jul 18, 2009 9:12:48 GMT -5
After I installed the magic module, the saw was tough to start unless you had it held down well and gave it a hefty pull. I opened the flywheel gap to .015" and drilled an extra hole in the point box so I could rotate is as much as possible. My math calculations showed a 3 deg. change in timing - not that much. I've learned that I just have to be firm with the pulls, no wimpy ones, or it will kick back. It is a nice running saw and I think it is a screamer compared to my other one. I'm going to move the 18" bar to this one. I had it out today cutting a down oak that was about 14" in diameter - used most of that 16" bar - and it never complained. I'm thinking of ordering a couple more of those magic modules ;D I ordered 3 last night from the supplier you provided above. Very cost effective ($12) and I was impressed with the aluminum housing rather than plastic you see on some of the "magic chips". I noted on the ad that they claimed increased RPM with the chip. Do you think this explains the difference between the "chipped saw" and your other one ? |
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Post by MCS on Jul 18, 2009 12:20:35 GMT -5
I haven't reviewed the ad but if they say the chip increases RPMs, it is from a change in timing and not a hotter spark as they may hope some would believe.
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