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Post by protectivedad on Mar 26, 2021 8:08:19 GMT -5
I was given a Super Mini (UT-50058) that "won't start." The spark looked great and it has solid compression even with the plug out you can feel the seal. When I pulled it there was no "catch". You have the repetitive sound of it compressing and releasing but not the second sound of it firing. If I used the whole pull I thought I heard the start of it starting (if you know what I mean  ). But it doesn't continue past the pull. Gas was going through the carb and leaking out of the exhaust the plug was wet. I put the H/L screws all the way in and then brought them both out one turn. No change. I took apart the carb, everything looked good from what I could see, but it was sealed so tight all the seals broke when taking it apart. I ordered a carb rebuild kit which I'm waiting for. I wanted to make sure the coil/magneto were a match (the coil is black) and the magneto says Phelon. Are the Wico aftermarket coils black? Is there an easy way to check if the coil is a Phelon without pulling it apart and worrying about the spacing? Not really much I can do until the carb kit gets here. Anythings I should check would be appreciated, thanks. |
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Post by edju1958 on Mar 26, 2021 8:34:45 GMT -5
If you have good spark you should be good therte.If you mix a Phelon & Wico ignition system parts you won't get spark.It sounds like the carb had diaphragms that were sticking to the covers.I've had that happen to me after a saw has been sitting for a lengthy period of time.I've had success with just getting the diaphragms loose & putting the carb back together as long as the diaphragms & gaskets were still good.It'll probably be a good idea to rebuild the carb.Be careful when you replace the circuit plate diaphragm that you use the correct one.If you use the wrong one your carb won't work. Your rings could be sticking from sitting.Pull the muffler & gently push on the ring(s) with a screwdriver to see if they spring back,if not they're stuck & may require some penetrant to loosen them.
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Post by protectivedad on Mar 26, 2021 8:46:36 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll check the rings. I bought the kit based on the pics and matching metering and fuel pump diaphragms. I didn't even look at the circuit plate diaphragm, oops. The listing shows two different circuit plate diaphragms included in the kit, I make sure I use the matching one. Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by edju1958 on Mar 26, 2021 9:18:48 GMT -5
I did have a thread here that would've been useful with the circuit plate diaphragm as in which one to use,but it must've been deleted.You can't always assume that the circuit plate diaphragm that's in the saw is the correct one.Case in point:I had an SEZ that just wouldn't run.It'd run on a prime,but that was it.Come to find out,after I'd pulled the carb apart the PO had rebuilt the carb & put the wrong diaphragm in the carb.I put the correct circuit plate diaphragm in after checking here & the saw ran great after that.
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Post by bobby167 on Mar 26, 2021 12:52:24 GMT -5
Check the exhaust / muffler for blockage. Had basically same thing with a backpack blower I was working on. Great spark , plenty of fuel , muffler was plugged. Cleaned it & it ran great. Just idea for you to look into.
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Post by protectivedad on Mar 26, 2021 13:05:36 GMT -5
Check the exhaust / muffler for blockage. Had basically same thing with a backpack blower I was working on. Great spark , plenty of fuel , muffler was plugged. Cleaned it & it ran great. Just idea for you to look into. Thanks, the muffler was off when I was testing it so there was excellent airflow. I had that problem with a chainsaw I ran with too much oil and it blocked up the exhaust screen |
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Post by protectivedad on Mar 26, 2021 13:09:44 GMT -5
I did have a thread here that would've been useful with the circuit plate diaphragm as in which one to use,but it must've been deleted.You can't always assume that the circuit plate diaphragm that's in the saw is the correct one.Case in point:I had an SEZ that just wouldn't run.It'd run on a prime,but that was it.Come to find out,after I'd pulled the carb apart the PO had rebuilt the carb & put the wrong diaphragm in the carb.I put the correct circuit plate diaphragm in after checking here & the saw ran great after that.  To me it looks like the right diaphragm. Matches the holes, etc. I can't get anything off though everything is stuck tight. What do you suggest I can soak the carb in to get the diaphragms and gaskets to clean up? |
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Post by edju1958 on Mar 26, 2021 13:21:05 GMT -5
I've been soaking carbs like that in Seafoam & have had good results.If you have an ultrasonic cleaner,even better yet.
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Mar 26, 2021 19:41:45 GMT -5
While you are waiting on the carb kit you might remove the recoil side plate and take a variable speed drill and a 1/2 inch deep 6 point socket and spin the flywheel CCW with the spark plug out and grounded good and look at the spark with the compression release en-gauged for minimum compression. Then spin the flywheel CW and note the spark. You will have to start the CCW rotation slow because it will try to loosen the flywheel nut. I have a screwdriver hex adapter to 3/8 drive that I use for such to get the socket connected to the drill chuck.
If the spark is stronger when spinning CW (the wrong direction for run) someone has installed wrong flywheel or magneto coil.
Look on the flywheel and see if you see Phelon or Wico/Prestolite logo. Homie used both types ignitions and even reverse polarized some Phelon flywheels for use with Wico points condensers. Spinning the flywheel with a drill will give you an idea of the ignition spark intensity.
Also install a new correct spark plug gapped properly before you go for a run. I've seen them little spark plugs fail like you describe, especially the little champions. Your saw was flooded severely. When you first re-install the carb I would give it just a small dose of mixed gas in the carb throat, leave the fuel line off the carb and no choke or even 1/2 choke and you should get a pop or momentary run with-in few cranks. If no promise pop or momentary run it's probably going to flood again when you give the carb the gas line. (the saw should give you a promise pop or short run with just little bit of gas in the carb throat.
Do you have a accurate small engine compression gauge and a vac/pressure tester?
If you fool with the coil mounting the air gap on those is .008-.010. (and this will change when tightening the mounting screws) make sure the magnets do not scrub on the coil core during final gapping.
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Post by protectivedad on Mar 28, 2021 15:49:44 GMT -5
While you are waiting on the carb kit you might remove the recoil side plate and take a variable speed drill and a 1/2 inch deep 6 point socket and spin the flywheel CCW with the spark plug out and grounded good and look at the spark with the compression release en-gauged for minimum compression. Then spin the flywheel CW and note the spark. You will have to start the CCW rotation slow because it will try to loosen the flywheel nut. I have a screwdriver hex adapter to 3/8 drive that I use for such to get the socket connected to the drill chuck. If the spark is stronger when spinning CW (the wrong direction for run) someone has installed wrong flywheel or magneto coil. Look on the flywheel and see if you see Phelon or Wico/Prestolite logo. Homie used both types ignitions and even reverse polarized some Phelon flywheels for use with Wico points condensers. Spinning the flywheel with a drill will give you an idea of the ignition spark intensity. Also install a new correct spark plug gapped properly before you go for a run. I've seen them little spark plugs fail like you describe, especially the little champions. Your saw was flooded severely. When you first re-install the carb I would give it just a small dose of mixed gas in the carb throat, leave the fuel line off the carb and no choke or even 1/2 choke and you should get a pop or momentary run with-in few cranks. If no promise pop or momentary run it's probably going to flood again when you give the carb the gas line. (the saw should give you a promise pop or short run with just little bit of gas in the carb throat. Do you have a accurate small engine compression gauge and a vac/pressure tester? If you fool with the coil mounting the air gap on those is .008-.010. (and this will change when tightening the mounting screws) make sure the magnets do not scrub on the coil core during final gapping. Thanks, very useful info. I will test the spark in reverse. The spark looked so good I couldn't think how it would get any better. I've had weed eaters with far worse spark work no problem, though I won't know until I try. I will test it as you suggest after getting the carb rebuilt but before I hook up any gas. I don't have a compression gauge and vac tester, haven't needed one. I'll look into it if I don't get a pop or momentary run. |
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Mar 28, 2021 16:11:18 GMT -5
I see that you got the saw given to you as a non-runner and it's been my experience that usually the previous flogger's add additional problems to the first problem, by installing wrong parts or mis-adjustments, especially when you encounter a piece of non-running eq.
That is why I suggested you spin the Homie flywheel both ways and if the spark intensity is stronger when looking at a .030 gapped plug grounded good when spun CW in the wrong direction someone has installed the wrong magneto or flywheel. Using the variable speed drill method allows one to get a good look at the spark comparison. If the flywheel nut happens to come loose when attempting to spin CCW just install a piece of braided rope into the spark plug hole to stop/lock the piston and then re-torque the flywheel nut.
Also just keep in mind that if it has a Phelon flywheel it might still have used a Wico/Prestolite coil and/or Wico points condenser because Homelite reverse polarized some Phelon flywheels to the same polarity as the Wico's because they had a shortage of vendor supplied Wico flywheels during production runs, but using the drill method of testing will let you know if someone (Bubba) used wrong mixed up ignition components, because the wrong polarity flywheel or the wrong magneto coil will produce a weaker spark in the CCW or correct rotation direction as compared to the opposite direction. I have purposely mixed flywheels and coils on Homelite EZ's ignition's both Electronic and points type ignitions and compared spark intensity for these results.
Top check flywheel magnet polarity as N or S, I use a small screwdriver or nail stuck to the magnet and then use a compass in vicinity of the nail to ID that magnets polarity. The N end of the compass needle will attract to the S magnet, etc.
I see quit a few Homie Mini's on flea bay right now as parts saws.
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on Mar 28, 2021 17:30:26 GMT -5
What is the Serial Number of your UT:50058 - SUPER MINI ?
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Post by protectivedad on Mar 28, 2021 18:36:11 GMT -5
What is the Serial Number of your UT:50058 - SUPER MINI ? T78 01814 |
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Mar 28, 2021 19:12:26 GMT -5
What is the Serial Number of your UT:50058 - SUPER MINI ? T78 01814 Do you have a link to the IPL that you can post? (or anyone have a link?) |
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Post by protectivedad on Mar 29, 2021 6:20:04 GMT -5
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Mar 29, 2021 8:48:27 GMT -5
A suggestion and a question.
Suggestion:
Some of them type Homies will start easier and faster with less cranks and less chance of flooding if you will turn in the throttle fast idle small slotted head screw, item 37 so as the saw starts at a very fast run when using the throttle latch compression release. Turning the screw in gives the engine more throttle opening (air) when the compression release #30 throttle latch is en-gauged. You have to take the air cover off and you will see the shiny head of the screw in the front of the handle looking back towards the upper part of the handle. It is a fine threaded screw and takes several turns to get a response. Just don't jam the screw hard at each end of travel or get tough with it or you can break the plastic throttle trigger. After the saw starts then immediately pulling and releasing the throttle trigger releases this latch setting to normal operation. After you get the saw running good then you can go back later and start decreasing the screws setting by hit and miss to the minimum throttle setting that lets the saw start good when cold and hot.
Kinda like the throttle fast idle choke setting on the old model automobile carbs.
I've seen some Homies that have low compression require a fast run start setting of this adjustment to get a good start with less cranks AND most all those type Homies require at least a 1/2 choke start even when hot and especially when cold with less pulls of the rope. (Have to run them at 1/2 choke for awhile during warm-up when first started cold.)
If you took the Handle apart to remove or re-install the carb you can see the adjustment screw in relation to the Plastic throttle trigger. (them carbs are not easily re-installed unless the handle is taken apart for access to the throttle linkage.
Questions:
Have you lifted the coil to see if you have one or two wires connected to the lower side of the coil that goes under the flywheel?
(points ignition has two wires connected to the tab on the bottom of the coil, a kill wire and a points wire, electronic ignition only has a kill wire)
Does the engine crank hard with the spark plug installed with the compression release not en-gauged??? (reason I ask is it should try to pull through on each compression stroke very hard almost wanting to break the rope when you pull the rope slow which indicates it has good compression)
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Post by sweepleader on Mar 31, 2021 11:30:05 GMT -5
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