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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 19, 2021 20:54:23 GMT -5
I am chasing some ghosts on a decent looking Super EZ Auto that I would love to have as a consistent runner. I am pretty certain it is a carb issue, even though I have rebuilt it a few times now. I even replaced the top screw with a wide base hex style to try and get a bit more purchase. It has the little Walbro HDC model that I have heard can be pretty fickle and has cost many a man a hair or two. Me being one of them. If possible, I would love to use this one and not swap it for a China special.
Symptoms:
- Sometimes it will ide just fine for as long as I leave it. Sometimes it will idle and die. Could be a temp difference thing?
- If I mash the trigger, it will bog, then rev up, then bog, and so forth. It wont die very often. It really does want to run, so badly, just can't quite get 'er done.
- Sometimes (not always, oddly) the carb box will flood a bit.
During the rebuild I was wondering a couple things:
1. Why did I choose this as my hobby?
2. Has anyone ever just silicone'd the outside seam of the top of a carb to get rid of potential air leaks? I almost want to do it as a troubleshooting measure to see if that is in fact the issue.
3. Does anyone know why the cylinder gasket extends up between the air intake and around carb box? At first I thought this was the source of the issue, as there is a gap there on my saw. However upon further inspection, I don't see what purpose this portion of the gasket even serves. There is a gasket between the reed valve assembly and the air intake port, as well as one between the reed valve assembly and the carb... so is it just to fill that void better and help keep dust out?
If anyone could help me with #2 and #3 above, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks all.
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Post by edju1958 on Jan 19, 2021 21:13:46 GMT -5
Hi,the gasket you're talking about is all one piece.It's the cylinder gasket & the gasket for the rear handle which is for the reeds.(that's the best I know how to explain it) Here's a link to what one looks like on eBay.
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 19, 2021 21:24:58 GMT -5
That's the one! What purpose does the top portion serve? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but it doesn't seem to seal anything off in the air intake path that doesn't already have a different gasket. Just curious.
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Post by edju1958 on Jan 19, 2021 21:53:59 GMT -5
One thing you should always remember here,especially if you're a beginner,there's no such thing as a dumb question! I've already explained it the best I know how.If you've got another parts EZ,take the air box/rear handle off & you'll see what it's for.It's not that difficult to take the rear handle off.4 bolts in the carb box,disconnect decomp assembly (the muffler might need to come off,or it might be in the way),disconnect the oil line in the air box,& there may be a couple more bolts on the outside,you'll see them.Oh yeah,I forgot you'll need to take the carb out & disconnect the fuel line.Once the bolts are out you'll need to wiggle the handle a bit to get it to pop loose.It's been a while since I've done this,you might need to remove the reed assembly too,not sure though.
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 201
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Post by okie on Jan 20, 2021 9:44:06 GMT -5
Just couple hints about you just starting out and working on a EZ that almost wants to run.
Almost on a chainsaw can be one of the harder ones to locate the issue, sometimes.
I think maybe it Leons site or you tube that has a real good link to how to bench test a HDC for leaks,
But to properly diagnose your carb and saw suing some logic you need to invest in a Mityvac that does both pressure and vac or a cheaper route for right now is a blood pressure bulb that will pump up and hold 5 lbs.
Gas in the carb box is a sing of carb or fuel line leak. Leon explains how to pressure test the carb especially the side that has the single center screw.
But your idling issue can very well be a small air leak which is common on the EZ's.
Most likely that gasket you mention is ok, I've never seen that one leak unless a Bubba has molested it.
You can locate a crankcase air leak by pressurizing the crankcase to about 3-5 lbs and using soap water and looking for bubbles using the mityvac or the blood pressure bulb and making gasket to seal off the carb/muffler ports. You will have a slight air leak at the compression release pintle but this can be ignored because it's on top of the piston, just hold the pintle down hard while checking other places with the soap. You can research this testing on-line.
Sources of an air leak are usually around the jug to block gasket, has 4 1/2 inch nuts and they can be tightened with a 12 point thinned out box end wrench.
Another leak source but not often is the chain clutch side seal. A hint that it's leaking is the idling will change as the chain is tightened and loosened or the idling will change as the saw is tipped sideways.
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 20, 2021 10:01:07 GMT -5
Awesome advice, thank you Okie. I have watched the videos you referenced above, and really do need to invest in a blood pressure bulb and make up a little tester. Maybe that is my next move.
I tore two of these completely down (minus the crank seals) and rebuilt one with the best components of both saws, so I know the cylinder is nice and snug to the crank case. What I don't understand is I have a gap at the top of the saw that isn't compressing the top of the filter box portion of that gasket. I swapped both handles and crank cases around, and they both had the same issue. I can take a small screwdriver and press on the gasket and it moves. Could someone indulge me and try doing this on one of their SEZ's? I just find it hard to believe I have two saws that have deformed air boxes... Thanks!
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Post by Clasec on Jan 20, 2021 10:19:20 GMT -5
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 20, 2021 10:42:52 GMT -5
Thanks Clasec! I will definitely give this a read.
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Post by blythkd on Jan 20, 2021 16:09:33 GMT -5
Awesome advice, thank you Okie. I have watched the videos you referenced above, and really do need to invest in a blood pressure bulb and make up a little tester. Maybe that is my next move. I tore two of these completely down (minus the crank seals) and rebuilt one with the best components of both saws, so I know the cylinder is nice and snug to the crank case. What I don't understand is I have a gap at the top of the saw that isn't compressing the top of the filter box portion of that gasket. I swapped both handles and crank cases around, and they both had the same issue. I can take a small screwdriver and press on the gasket and it moves. Could someone indulge me and try doing this on one of their SEZ's? I just find it hard to believe I have two saws that have deformed air boxes... Thanks! So the upper part of the base gasket is loose but the 2 screws that clamp the carb air box to the crankcase are tight? There's one screw inside the air box and one outside just above the muffler. I've never seen one that wouldn't clamp down on that gasket to seal the air box up. Maybe they're the wrong screws? Another possible air leak that happens on SEZ's that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the drive case to crank case joint. Hold the saw down to a work bench or step on it on the ground and grab the bar and try to work it up and down. If the drive case is moving up and down, the 3 screws that hold it are behind the oiler. That joint is sealed by an O-ring that usually is ok to just tighten the screws down and keep going. I usually remove the screws and put Loctite on them before reinstalling. |
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 20, 2021 18:16:16 GMT -5
That is correct. It's almost like there is a slight bow in the top part of the air box, so it pinches the gasket near the screws but not in the middle. At first I thought it was bent and tried a different handle. Same issue. So I tried the first handle on a different saw. Same issue. So I am at a loss.
Regardless, I don't think this would cause a performance issue (minus maybe allowing dust in) but I wanted to confirm. Air is coming through the filter anyways, so if a small amount gets through this gasket I wouldn't anticipate it causing any symptoms I am seeing.
I have ordered a gauge and a blood pressure bulb, and will be looking at the carb first. If the carb holds pressure fine, I would also like to take another peek at the reed valves. I cleaned them and they looked good when I reinstalled them, but I know they can cause fuel in the carb box if not seated correctly. Might be worth a try flipping them around.
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Post by blythkd on Jan 20, 2021 18:24:56 GMT -5
You are correct, a leak where the upper part of the base gasket seals the air box to the crankcase will not cause a performance issue, only a path for unfiltered air to enter the air box. It might not be a big deal, just watch to see how dirty it gets in the carb chamber area. If it does get noticeably dirty in there in a short time, I would pull the handle/air box piece back off and silicone the gasket so the joint is sealed.
I don't believe I've ever seen one of those parts warped to the point that it wouldn't squeeze the gasket enough to seal. I have however seen the ear broken off where the outside screw goes through. That actually is fairly common, certainly not uncommon. That makes the entire rear handle/air box part somewhat loose and unstable and definitely creates a path for a dirty air leak into the air box.
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 20, 2021 20:51:47 GMT -5
Yes, perplexing for sure... If anyone cares, here is a photo of me pressing on the gasket with a screwdriver. It moves freely in the middle with both side screws tight. Ear isn't cracked either. Anyways, I'll wait for my blood pressure pump to come in the mail and report back on my carb findings! In the meantime, I also posted a couple photos of the saw and one of the UT/SN in case someone is able to date it. Thanks again.   |
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 20, 2021 20:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on Jan 20, 2021 21:17:33 GMT -5
*UT:10505-A ( SUPER EZ-AUTO W ) SN:200570243 DOM: Tuesday, February 26th, of 1980 ... Fourteen-Thousand, Nine-Hundred, and Thirty-Nine days ago !  |
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Post by fossil on Jan 20, 2021 21:34:00 GMT -5
I am chasing some ghosts on a decent looking Super EZ Auto that I would love to have as a consistent runner. I am pretty certain it is a carb issue, even though I have rebuilt it a few times now. I even replaced the top screw with a wide base hex style to try and get a bit more purchase. It has the little Walbro HDC model that I have heard can be pretty fickle and has cost many a man a hair or two. Me being one of them. If possible, I would love to use this one and not swap it for a China special. Symptoms: - Sometimes it will ide just fine for as long as I leave it. Sometimes it will idle and die. Could be a temp difference thing? - If I mash the trigger, it will bog, then rev up, then bog, and so forth. It wont die very often. It really does want to run, so badly, just can't quite get 'er done. - Sometimes (not always, oddly) the carb box will flood a bit. During the rebuild I was wondering a couple things: 1. Why did I choose this as my hobby? 2. Has anyone ever just silicone'd the outside seam of the top of a carb to get rid of potential air leaks? I almost want to do it as a troubleshooting measure to see if that is in fact the issue. 3. Does anyone know why the cylinder gasket extends up between the air intake and around carb box? At first I thought this was the source of the issue, as there is a gap there on my saw. However upon further inspection, I don't see what purpose this portion of the gasket even serves. There is a gasket between the reed valve assembly and the air intake port, as well as one between the reed valve assembly and the carb... so is it just to fill that void better and help keep dust out? If anyone could help me with #2 and #3 above, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks all. Do you know which model SDC carb you have on your EZ? |
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 20, 2021 21:38:58 GMT -5
5terrysupersaws - Thanks! What does the "W" represent?
Fossil - It says its an HDC L 64
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on Jan 20, 2021 21:46:01 GMT -5
"W" is the West-Coast or Western version ... Heat Shielded muffler and sometimes a Full Wrap Handle Bar .
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Post by blythkd on Jan 20, 2021 22:56:32 GMT -5
As much as I hate to bring up another issue before the current open issues are solved, I thought I should mention checking that W muffler out. They came out originally with only 2 short spacers between the muffler cap and the outer shield. If there are only the spacer on the front 2 screws, it needs to be updated. The update included 2 longer spacers and a short spacer on the back screw. It took 2 longer screws in the front holes too and I think you could move one of the old front screws to the rear position. Pretty sure this was to let more heat out.
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Post by jakersmcbakers on Jan 21, 2021 9:31:14 GMT -5
Interesting. Thanks for the info on the muffler. I will have to add that to my list of things to check!
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