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Post by Supercharged86 on May 16, 2020 16:47:33 GMT -5
Hey Guys, as you probably know on a SEZ the fuel/oil tank is fastened to the crankcase with special flat-top #2 philips fasteners (on the older ones, newer ones have #25 Torx). Man these are a real SOB to get out, god forbid they didn't fill up the hole with thread-lock before the fastener. Anyway, everytime I try to get one of these out my #2 bit (Milwaukee Shockwave brand) takes a beaten and is not as effective the next time. Anybody have a source for a better bit? Thanks. Steve
ps. I've even tried heating the screw up with a micro-torch, that doesn't seem to help.
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Post by xl130 on May 16, 2020 16:58:08 GMT -5
The exact same screws hold the ignition back plate on my XL-130. It’s a friggin terrible fastener to remove. You’re lucky if you get them out and back in once. I’ve had to go in twice now and may have to a third. I’m going to need to drill them out this time! Made the mistake of thread lock and now they’re sealed with locktite and half stripped.
I’m interested to hear the trick on this myself!
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Post by lesorubcheek on May 16, 2020 17:25:58 GMT -5
I've had decent luck with impact drivers. Use a 1lb hammer and usually heat also before starting. Somebody over at AS mentioned these years ago. They really do work without camming out. Dan
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on May 16, 2020 17:43:40 GMT -5
The screws require a #3-Pozidriv bit to engage the fastener properly, a #2 Philips is too loose and a #3 Phil. doesn't fit ... A swing-press actuated impact driver may also be needed, as mentioned above.
CORRECTION: #2-Pozidriv bit
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 17, 2020 7:37:15 GMT -5
The screws require a #3- Pozidriv bit to engage the fastener properly, a #2 Philips is too loose and a #3 Phil. doesn't fit ... A swing-press actuated impact driver may also be needed, as mentioned above. Ahhhh huh! So I've been using the wrong damn bit all this time. No wonder it doesn't work well. Thanks a million my friend!!! The only thing that has made it even slighly successful (about 75% of the time) is the fact I'm using one of those vintage B&D cordless screwdrivers that has long since lost its battery use but the oversized shape of the handle provides excellent grip and torque.
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Post by xl130 on May 17, 2020 7:43:32 GMT -5
It’s tough even with the torx bits. Heat and impact I’ll try next time. I was able to strip the head out with a posi ....however it was already worn badly and red locktite was in the threads. Not fun.
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 17, 2020 9:07:20 GMT -5
I've had decent luck with impact drivers. Use a 1lb hammer and usually heat also before starting. Somebody over at AS mentioned these years ago. They really do work without camming out. Dan Thanks Dan.
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Post by sweepleader on May 17, 2020 9:43:38 GMT -5
I have used an impact driver like that for years. I have broken bits and taken the head right off the screw but never stripped one out using it.
Another useful tip is to put valve lapping compound (carbide grit in grease paste available at auto parts stores and on line) on the screwdriver before tapping it into the screw with a hammer. That give a LOT more grip.
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 17, 2020 9:48:00 GMT -5
Well, I'll be dammed. After Googling Pozidriv, i see it's identified with special markings on the fastener. So out i went to look at the top of the special screw, sure as shit, the four little tick marks. I guess you learn something new every day. Thanks again fellas.
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on May 17, 2020 19:27:28 GMT -5
The "required" size for Fuel-Tank screw 65321 may actually be a #2-Pozidriv... apologize for any incorrect info. SEZ IPL:24522-A lists it as Tool:24320-Bit #3-Pozidriv , revision 3 of the IPL lists Tool:24304-Bit #2-Pozidriv Below, some photos of a Back-Plate retaining screw(65321) removed from a VI-200/XL-130 using a #2-Pozidriv bit .
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 17, 2020 21:20:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the update. Is the bit holder a 1/4" socket in 1/4" drive?
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on May 18, 2020 1:11:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the update. Is the bit holder a 1/4" socket in 1/4" drive? It is 1/4" drive , special 1/4" bit holder socket that is thick walled and has a retainer inside so the bit stays put. It's from a Stanley 183 piece tool kit. The #2-Pozidriv bit is from an old Black & Decker bit set that contained the #1-#2-#3 Pozidriv bits. A #2 bit is quite useful as it is used on fuel tank cover screws..etc.. on the XL-100/900 series. I used a 1/4" ratchet with a 3" extension and bit pictured above(click on pics for enlarged view) to remove the back-plate screw, with the setup was able to put lots of downward pressure and apply torque at the same time.The screw had no thread-locker, but is a triangular rolled thread design. I have a 25+ year old Snap-on #2-Pz screwdriver that I used on GM trim fasteners back in the day, not sure why they chose that type of screw, nonetheless, the additional 4 'splines' help grip the fastener well. Taking a few thou off the tip of the bit may aid in getting a better bite/engagement to remove a damaged fastener.
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 18, 2020 5:27:34 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Post by sweepleader on May 18, 2020 6:24:49 GMT -5
The original Phillips design was such that it PREVENTED too much torque (can you imagine that?) and would cam out intentionally if an assembly line worker got carried away. (Look it up, its pretty easy to find.)
The Posidrive design was supposed to be compatible with the Phillips but not cam out. Well, its not really compatible completely but it does offer more torque capability.
Torx so far seems to be the best but it is expensive to manufacture due to the tooling limits.
I was not aware until this thread that Homelite used Posidrive.
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Post by jklw77 on May 18, 2020 7:39:08 GMT -5
jklw77 Avatar Mar 17, 2018 18:19:44 GMT -5 jklw77 said: Hello all, reworking an ez auto stripped 1 of 6 case bolts(pozidrive#3), tried flat chisel, penetrant soaked for over 2 weeks , freeze penetrant release no good. Found a special on left handed drill bit set @ northern tools some time ago used 2 different bits and with second one took care of business when that screw backed out ...what relief ,it paid for the set with out question , best thing I have bought from NORTHERN TOOL got me out of a bind those left handed drill bits should be in every tool box for reasons like this one
jklw77
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Post by xl130 on May 22, 2020 6:03:14 GMT -5
I've had decent luck with impact drivers. Use a 1lb hammer and usually heat also before starting. Somebody over at AS mentioned these years ago. They really do work without camming out. Dan This advice is spot on! I just had to remove the Torx screws from a Super Mini. I went a little....ok a lot overboard with the locktite during assembly.....again. Broke the threads off one torx socket. Heated and whacked it a few times with a ball peen hammer and a punch about the same size as the screw head(don’t have a proper impact). The screws backed right out no problem. Thanks for the tips!
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Post by xl130 on Jun 13, 2020 16:26:39 GMT -5
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Post by onlyhomelites on Jun 14, 2020 10:27:26 GMT -5
Ouch! I've had some tough ones, but nothing quite that bad!
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Post by xl130 on Jun 14, 2020 10:42:32 GMT -5
lol. Completely self induced! A little dab of the red locktite would have been more than enough. I remember saying to myself when I was assembling that I sure hope I don’t ever have to take these out.....
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Mar 14, 2021 18:44:08 GMT -5
lol. Completely self induced! A little dab of the red locktite would have been more than enough. I remember saying to myself when I was assembling that I sure hope I don’t ever have to take these out..... Yep, the red is not made for go backs. When using the red best to assume it a permanent connection. I only use the red on Bro in Laws stuff. Best to not use the red if lots of heat cannot be applied to soften the lock.
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