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Post by xl130 on May 9, 2020 13:04:23 GMT -5
Opening up a can of worms with this probably but what’s the general opinion/ experience with engine rebuilds?
I’ve put a lil red barn piston & rings into a NOS cylinder for my XL-130 rebuild. Haven’t done a compression test but it feels lower than a original XL-130 that I have. I had really anticipated that the new engine would be really hard to pull over..... or at least noticeably strong compression. Possibly a poor break in period....maybe.
Anyone else use an aftermarket piston and rings and notice any difference in compression?
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 9, 2020 13:51:34 GMT -5
Well I can't speak for that particular brand from the red barn, likely a Chinese product similar to the Hyway brand. But I have used the Meteor brand pistons and Caber rings from Italy. These products are every bit as good as OEM. If your using new rings on a used cylinder, it might take some run time for them to seat in a little better. You'll likely see some better numbers later on.
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Post by xl130 on May 9, 2020 14:47:59 GMT -5
This was a complete engineer overhaul. Complete saw overhaul really. Pretty much the only thing original is the crank bearings carb, and a few other parts.
It has very low hours on it and have had major issues trying to get it sealed properly. I’ve never build a saw before this so lots of learning curves were experienced.
I think I finally have my crank seal installation figured out.
Now I can put some use into this saw. Possibly it will break in and perform better...
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Post by jselden78 on May 9, 2020 19:56:28 GMT -5
Where do you get the meteor brand from
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Post by jklw77 on May 10, 2020 8:56:11 GMT -5
overhauled an XL-12 had same issues as far as compression, run 3 tanks of fuel thru little red barn cylinder / piston new , rings , not the grunt I was exspecting
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 10, 2020 10:42:29 GMT -5
Where do you get the meteor brand from I haven't looked for a Homelite, to date I've only used them on a couple of Huskies. So this option may not be available? Sorry about that, my bad.
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Post by Supercharged86 on May 10, 2020 10:47:33 GMT -5
overhauled an XL-12 had same issues as far as compression, run 3 tanks of fuel thru little red barn cylinder / piston new , rings , not the grunt I was exspecting Did you compare piston diameter measurements by any chance? How about ring end spacing at the pin? I wonder if they're not as tight as an original and hence the blow-by and loss of compression.
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Post by sweepleader on May 10, 2020 11:20:13 GMT -5
Might be the pin height is not what it should be, or the dome is low. Both of those have major effect on compression.
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Post by xl130 on May 10, 2020 18:10:47 GMT -5
overhauled an XL-12 had same issues as far as compression, run 3 tanks of fuel thru little red barn cylinder / piston new , rings , not the grunt I was exspecting Did you compare piston diameter measurements by any chance? How about ring end spacing at the pin? I wonder if they're not as tight as an original and hence the blow-by and loss of compression. Unfortunately I never thought to really compare the two. It seems like it would be a natural thing to do, but it was my first ever rebuild and just assumed it would be an exact match. It fit up well and I didn’t notice any real difference when I assembled everything. I suppose it would only take a fraction of a measurement to make a huge difference though! I’ve had plenty of small issues that have been driving me crazy. A total rebuild for a guy that had never even owned a gas powered saw was pretty ambitious. I’m getting it dialed in little by little......maybe Once you start having a problems you second guess everything.....especially when you don’t have experience to really trust some of the work that you’ve done. Possibly the compression is on is fine and I’m just being over paranoid now. I’d have to test it to know for sure.
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Post by jklw77 on May 10, 2020 19:39:22 GMT -5
Points well made.No I did not compare. , new cylinder and jug , bought and cleaned and bolted up, installed got tuned ,did not check piston pin height / bore DIA. .I ASSUMED THAT WITH NEW PISTON AND CYLINDER THIS SAW WOULD BE AS STOCK .AS to the performance I was expecting .did not happen
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Post by xl130 on May 12, 2020 4:49:30 GMT -5
I seem to remember awhile back that someone here had used a Proline piston and was happy with it. Anyone else know anything about this product?
Is it worth putting new rings on an old piston? That may be another alternative worth trying for me try instead of a whole new piston. I’m pretty sure I have a decent condition used. I would think there is most likely some wear on the rings currently on it though.
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Post by sweepleader on May 12, 2020 8:28:24 GMT -5
I think a used piston could be a viable alternative, it was working in the engine it was removed from. Same for the rings.
If you are building a saw to go out in the woods with a full time logging operation, maybe not. But then you would not be using an antique saw in most cases anyway. (Jeez, I do amuse myself from time to time.)
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on May 12, 2020 21:20:10 GMT -5
I seem to remember awhile back that someone here had used a Proline piston and was happy with it. 'Twas I , and was "pleased with the quality" . Installed the PROLINE piston kit in a SUPER XL-130 project . I chose it over the lrb piston kit because the Proline circlips and rings were almost identical in design to a stock piston ... The final decision was based on that the PROLINE piston, as stated in the ad; This kit is NOT made in china.
The fit and finish were excellent . Ring end gap, piston to cylinder wall clearance, squish, were all spot on . It was slightly heavier than a stock piston though, by 3-4 grams.
Installed into a cleaned up cylinder(stock) .. with zero run time and assembly lube remaining on the internals, so probably not a true number, nonetheless reading 135-140 psi on a trusted gauge.
The 64405-( XL-122 ) cylinder is somewhat different in combustion chamber height/design than a 67124-A ( XL-76/130 ) cylinder, which could possibly have an affect on the compression 'number' .
XL-130---------XL-122 (on the right)
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Post by xl130 on May 13, 2020 4:39:09 GMT -5
Interesting.....I put a NOS 64405 cylinder on this saw with the lil red barn SXL piston.
What piston was in a XL-122? Maybe I would have been better off putting the cleaned up XL-130 jug back on....
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Post by Hoggwood on May 14, 2020 1:43:51 GMT -5
I used an aftermarket piston a few years ago in a SXL 130. I think it was from Chainsawr. From pictures, it looks very similar to the LRB ones. A couple of serious problems. Locating pins were set back pretty significantly and they were setup for the notched rings supplied. The profile of the notch on the ring and the pin did not align properly. The rings, when pushed into the cylinder, had little end gap. When fitted to the piston, they bound in the cylinder. It would have been catastrophic. The ring groove was too narrow for OEM or the closest metric Caber substitute I had on hand. So, there was no way to fit a traditional non-notched ring. I ended up coping the notch on the rings with a Dremel. Less than satisfactory compression in the end and an awfully thin leading edge on the notched ring.
I ran ran the saw once and shelved it. On an aside, I just fit an AM piston on a Super Mini. Similar impression, but the notched rings fit much better and without modification. I measured the OEM piston and the AM. Dimensions were very good on the AM. My hunch is the notched rings/pin are leakers, as the compression was down. Mind you, the cylinder did have to get cleaned up significantly.
Problem I have always faced, like others up north, is the very costly expense of getting OEM via eBay and such. All US $'s and exorbitant shipping/duty. Homegrown supply of OEM is rare for the Terry saws. Thus, the attraction to AM (if the quality and OEM performance is on par). It is sometimes cheaper to wait it out for a running or parts saw to come up locally and pull what you need from it. I mention sometimes because I have noticed a trend in the last 18 months that is seeing more people cleaning out their garages and listing the 76/130's (for example) and asking big $'s. The word "collector's saw" or "vintage" is being misconstrued for "rare". What I used to pick up for a song or for "free to a good home" starts at $100 and up, now. Folks are easily offended when you suggest otherwise and usually have no interest/idea about the saw or speaking about the issues it may have.
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Post by xl130 on May 14, 2020 10:01:09 GMT -5
I have put a lot of time and effort and waaaaay too much money into this stupid saw to settle for poor performance. I feel like that stupid gambling addict that keeps throwing money in the slot machine, but I’ve got one last try at getting this saw to run like new.
I purchased a NOS SXL piston for a “not too bad price“. I am interested to compare the LRB piston to the actual Homelite piston. I’ll share photos when I get it.
If this doesn’t fix it up than it must be cursed or something and just destined to sit on the shelf.
I’ve swapped flywheels and coils and clutches and carburetors. Rebuilt the carbs, replace the carb kits with genuine repair kits, swapped reed assemblies, replaced the crank seals several times(due to poorly installed by myself, and probably more than this but can’t recall everything.
Nothing has changed the general performance or what I perceive to be low compression.
This darn piston better make the difference. I’m tempted to through the old carbon and scored piston and cylinder back on. It would probably work better!
I’ve learned a heck of a lot in a short amount of time....but I’m ready to be done with this saw!
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Post by charles on May 14, 2020 11:25:17 GMT -5
XL 130 , why don't you use a known good quality Compression Gauge on this saw so you will know what you are dealing with ? There
are specs on the "normal" compression range for most Homelite saws . And this would apply to all rebuilds .
At this point , everyone is just guessing as to the problem .
C T H
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Post by xl130 on May 14, 2020 12:13:12 GMT -5
That’s a great point. I have a compression gauge....but do not have a proper adapter for a small engine spark plug hole.
Any ideas as to where a proper adapter can be obtained?
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Post by charles on May 14, 2020 12:47:43 GMT -5
Not sure which plug you saw takes , but if it's a Champion CJ-6 or CJ-8 , they are a 14 mm thread . The other "standard" thread is 18 mm .
My Compression Gauge has a dual thread on the adaptor .
C T H
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Post by sweepleader on May 15, 2020 11:02:01 GMT -5
I believe NAPA sells adapters. Most of the ones I have seen adapt 14 mm to other sizes, most Homelites are 14 mm so it really depends on what you have already.
A search of "compression gage adapter" yielded a long list of possiblities.
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