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Post by makowicki on Apr 28, 2018 18:57:44 GMT -5
So its rather expensive to buy "engineered gas" I will do the whole distilled water method to remove the 10% alcohol from pump gas. I burned a full gallon today in my old super xl today. I need to cut all day tomarrow, no time to do the alcohol removal process. Will be interesting to see how the saw runs.
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 28, 2018 19:36:33 GMT -5
Personally, I would never allow homemade "ethanol free gas" in anything I own. The fuel will separated into 3 phases using the water method. This is when you add a gallon of water to 3 or 4 gallons of ethanol containing fuel. The water is supposed to blend with the alcohol in preference to the gas and separate out at the bottom of the container. Then you drain off the bottom and have ethanol free gas on the top. The trick is that the refiners/blenders add solvents to the gas to make the alcohol blend. Without that they will separate just sitting. If you add excess water you will get much of the alcohol out but the solvents and some of the alcohol will remain, but now that alcohol will be saturated with the water you just dumped in. You will have near pure gas on top, saturated gas/solvent/water in the middle, and water on the bottom. Drain the water and you still have a mess.
There have been cases of unscrupulous blenders adding water to stretch what they were selling because it would mix with the gas and solvent. Made them money, damaged cars and gas pumps in stations.
Stick with the ethanol free gas from the start, if I cannot buy it, I don't run my antiques. The clean gas is only 50 cents or so more a gallon. That means less than $10 a summer for me for saws, lawnmower, blower, trimmer, snowblower. I feel so strongly about it that my old firetruck gets only ethanol free gas, and it burns it at a 4 mpg rate. I left ethanol free gas in my 1962 Chev for over 15 years, the gas was still fine and the engine ran fine when I started it up.
If it was only in the tank and engine for a day at a time, and the engine run dry, things might be OK. They might not, you pays your nickel and you takes your chances.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 23:14:08 GMT -5
Personally, I would never allow homemade "ethanol free gas" in anything I own. The fuel will separated into 3 phases using the water method. This is when you add a gallon of water to 3 or 4 gallons of ethanol containing fuel. The water is supposed to blend with the alcohol in preference to the gas and separate out at the bottom of the container. Then you drain off the bottom and have ethanol free gas on the top. The trick is that the refiners/blenders add solvents to the gas to make the alcohol blend. Without that they will separate just sitting. If you add excess water you will get much of the alcohol out but the solvents and some of the alcohol will remain, but now that alcohol will be saturated with the water you just dumped in. You will have near pure gas on top, saturated gas/solvent/water in the middle, and water on the bottom. Drain the water and you still have a mess. There have been cases of unscrupulous blenders adding water to stretch what they were selling because it would mix with the gas and solvent. Made them money, damaged cars and gas pumps in stations. Stick with the ethanol free gas from the start, if I cannot buy it, I don't run my antiques. The clean gas is only 50 cents or so more a gallon. That means less than $10 a summer for me for saws, lawnmower, blower, trimmer, snowblower. I feel so strongly about it that my old firetruck gets only ethanol free gas, and it burns it at a 4 mpg rate. I left ethanol free gas in my 1962 Chev for over 15 years, the gas was still fine and the engine ran fine when I started it up. If it was only in the tank and engine for a day at a time, and the engine run dry, things might be OK. They might not, you pays your nickel and you takes your chances. I've had the same tank of ethanol free gas in some of my mowers 1-2 years and they still start and run fine, ethanol gas is dying or dead at 6 months. Around here ethanol free is easy to find over 1/3 of the stations carry it and 10 percent carry only ethanol free gas of three grades. Its about 20-30 cents more a gallon here and you get 25 percent better gas mileage with it with no fuel related problems, ethanol free is a win-win all the way around |
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Post by onlyhomelites on Apr 28, 2018 23:43:16 GMT -5
Here in Oregon there is a state mandate for the E10 blend, but more and more stations have 91 octane "clear" in a dedicated pump. It isn't cheap here, usually about $1.50 more a gallon but i still consider it well worth it. Like Dan, my old 65 Chevy runs almost exclusively on it (unless I'm on a road trip where I know I'm burning a whole tank quickly) but at least mine averages ~14mpg!
I was working on a McCulloch 110 tonight and it clearly had run ethanol and then sat for years. The carburetor had massive corrosion and pitting under the fuel diaphragm to the point that it was garbage. It looked like the pitting had eaten into the passages, so I wasn't about to waste my time on a rebuild.
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Post by makowicki on Apr 29, 2018 18:48:31 GMT -5
Living in Connecticut I have searched for alcohol free gas, i could be wrong but nobody sells it at the pump. I can buy "engineered" gas at Tractor Supply or Home Depot for $25.00 per gallon. Please correct me if I am wrong. I will say I get about a 10% gain on the water side if I remove the alcohol.
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Post by walterg on Apr 29, 2018 18:52:23 GMT -5
Living in Connecticut I have searched for alcohol free gas, i could be wrong but nobody sells it at the pump. I can buy "engineered" gas at Tractor Supply or Home Depot for $25.00 per gallon. Please correct me if I am wrong. I will say I get about a 10% gain on the water side if I remove the alcohol. Are any of these stations close to you. www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CT |
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 29, 2018 19:18:45 GMT -5
I cannot recommend trying to remove the alcohol by the water method, I do not believe it improves the situation but rather makes it worse. I suppose by "engineered" you mean premix by the quart. I think that is safe although pretty spendy. I have a couple of quarts on hand "just in case". In an all steel can, I think it will keep nearly forever. Do check out walterg's suggestion of www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CT That site has proven to be pretty good. I believe it is all user referrals. Some stations that have alcohol free gas do not even know it. That was the case with my local Kwik Trip station. I am pretty sure all Kwik Trips have it as their premium, I had to go to the station and check the pump. When I called them the clerks did not know they had it. Others may be similarly ignorant of their products. There is probably no reason for you to look for a Kwik Trip, the nearest one to you appears to be in Wisconsin. If you really cannot find it, I would recommend that you rebuild your carbs with the alcohol tolerant parts along with proper fuel hoses. I think you would be fine with the alcohol gas if you did not leave it in the saw for more than a few days. Personally, I would drain every use at the end of the day so I did not forget. It is a lot of screwing around but less than finding carbs and fuel tanks to replace damaged stuff. Best of luck. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 20:14:56 GMT -5
I cannot recommend trying to remove the alcohol by the water method, I do not believe it improves the situation but rather makes it worse. I suppose by "engineered" you mean premix by the quart. I think that is safe although pretty spendy. I have a couple of quarts on hand "just in case". In an all steel can, I think it will keep nearly forever. Do check out walterg's suggestion of www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CT That site has proven to be pretty good. I believe it is all user referrals. Some stations that have alcohol free gas do not even know it. That was the case with my local Kwik Trip station. I am pretty sure all Kwik Trips have it as their premium, I had to go to the station and check the pump. When I called them the clerks did not know they had it. Others may be similarly ignorant of their products. There is probably no reason for you to look for a Kwik Trip, the nearest one to you appears to be in Wisconsin. If you really cannot find it, I would recommend that you rebuild your carbs with the alcohol tolerant parts along with proper fuel hoses. I think you would be fine with the alcohol gas if you did not leave it in the saw for more than a few days. Personally, I would drain every use at the end of the day so I did not forget. It is a lot of screwing around but less than finding carbs and fuel tanks to replace damaged stuff. Best of luck. Do you mean Quick Trip? There is a huge convenience store company called Quick Trip. It Started In Tulsa and has stores in 8-12 states, their premium (91 octane) at some stores is ethanol free and some stations sell 87 octane ethanol free, some have both. We buy Sinclair around here because its drilled, pumped and refined right here in Oklahoma. we also have Shll stations, and they are all ethanol free, but they are owned my one of the countries in the middle east that I rather not send my money to. |
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 29, 2018 20:27:44 GMT -5
Nope, Kwik Trip is a 3 state chain, MN, IA, WI. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 21:59:32 GMT -5
This is a Quick Trip convenience store around here, 11 states and over 700 stores, they are really nice. Many offer Semi-Truck islands, DEF, and ethanol free gas as well as flex fuel in some states. 
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Post by makowicki on Apr 30, 2018 13:39:40 GMT -5
Here in CT i was told its illegal to sell ethenal free gas at the pump. You can buy it in a container, best price is about $15.00 a gallon.
One place sells at a pump but its 110 octane leaded. Also over $10.00 a gallon
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 30, 2018 15:00:57 GMT -5
Wow, guess you are stuck then. Maybe you could import it on the black market. It might be available for off road use in tractors and the like. You might be able to buy it from a farmer. Here in MN farmers have gas that does not have road tax added to it. Its purple so cops can tell if you are using it in a car and cheating the tax collectors. It can be used in any off road equipment but they only sell it to farmers in bulk, not at stations.
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Post by jerseyhighlander on Apr 30, 2018 20:58:41 GMT -5
Here in CT i was told its illegal to sell ethenal free gas at the pump. You can buy it in a container, best price is about $15.00 a gallon. One place sells at a pump but its 110 octane leaded. Also over $10.00 a gallon Invest in a good metal gas can, maybe five gallon, depending on your needs and next time you have reason to travel to the other side of the Hudson River, all the Stewarts stations over there have Ethanol Free gas at the pump. Looks like the closest one is roughly an hour each way (1872 Rt 9w, Milton, NY), but if your chasing a Craigslist ad in that direction, have your gas can with you. New Jersey is just as big of a police state in most regards and including what gas we are allowed to buy. Can't wait to put this whole area of the country to my rearview mirror. |
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 30, 2018 21:13:21 GMT -5
Good idea there jersey, gas keeps a very long time in a steel can with a steel cap and a good gasket. You could mix in the 2 cycle oil and that would help preserve it too. One of the big reasons gas goes bad is the lighter fractions evaporate off, also it will oxidize if exposed to a constantly changing air stream. Plastic is not tight enough for more than a couple of months but steel can be good for years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 21:22:02 GMT -5
Wow, guess you are stuck then. Maybe you could import it on the black market. It might be available for off road use in tractors and the like. You might be able to buy it from a farmer. Here in MN farmers have gas that does not have road tax added to it. Its purple so cops can tell if you are using it in a car and cheating the tax collectors. It can be used in any off road equipment but they only sell it to farmers in bulk, not at stations. They do that with farm diesel down here, its red, but no cop or no farmer I've ever talked to has checked or been checked, I think its really on the honor system |
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Post by rowdy235 on Apr 30, 2018 21:27:15 GMT -5
We have the red tinted offroad diesel here in Oregon too, but not gas. When I asked about it one time I was told that the state calculates their gas tax figuring that some of it will go to off-road use. But that's just hearsay LOL
Fortunately we have quite a bit of non-ethanol fuel since the state mandates 10% ethanol
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Post by jerseyhighlander on May 1, 2018 10:19:48 GMT -5
Good idea there jersey, gas keeps a very long time in a steel can with a steel cap and a good gasket. You could mix in the 2 cycle oil and that would help preserve it too. One of the big reasons gas goes bad is the lighter fractions evaporate off, also it will oxidize if exposed to a constantly changing air stream. Plastic is not tight enough for more than a couple of months but steel can be good for years. Even the older ones, but especially the cheap plastic cans they make today, the volatile organic vapors will dissipate fairly rapidly, moving right through the plastic. Hate the plastic cans for 20 other reasons anyway. The metal Just-Rite cans are still made in the USA and still likely to last the rest of your life. Roughly the cost of one saw, well worth it IMHO. We have the "off road/farm" red dyed diesel here, pretty sure everybody does but never seen gasoline that way. The red diesel is essentially #2 heating oil. Can stir up a Hornet's nest of stupidity real fast bringing that subject up in a diesel truck forum. Apparently in some heavy farming states they dip tanks and check at inspection stops, but never even seen that anywhere on the east coast in 35 years I've been driving. One thing I like about my diesel is that I've got roughly 250 gallons of emergency fuel stored under my house in case of emergency. |
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Post by ettrick on May 6, 2018 7:44:38 GMT -5
I did not know the plastic containers allowed fuel to leach through them so easy. Is this backed up by some research? Even my pickup fuel tank from 1999 is plastic. I would think the EPA would be involved if this is true. I am thankful i live by kwik trips main office so i have no trouble getting alcohol free gas.
Dan
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Post by sweepleader on May 7, 2018 0:18:49 GMT -5
Many trucks and cars have plastic tanks. They are indeed covered by federal emission rules and are made of very substantial stuff, they have to meet those rules for 100,000 miles if I remember correctly. Vehicles have such tight vapor rules that they have to capture vapors in carbon canisters and burn them on the next driving cycle. That is the reason some have check engine lights that come on if you leave the cap off or just loose. Gas cans are not regulated nearly as much. Very little fuel in the big picture is sold to go into gas cans. As an example, I buy about 15 to 20 gallons of fuel a week, that would be 800 to 1000 gallons a year, and about 5 to 10 gallons a year in a gas can. So about 1% of my gas goes in a can. Putting a tight lid on any can will improve things a lot, many use no lid at all and then it will not matter what the can is made of. The Just Rite cans that jersey mentioned do a very good job of containing the vapors. "Vapor pressure varies with the season; the normal range is 48.2 kPa to 103 kPa (7 psi to 15 psi)." page 2 of: www.chevron.com/-/media/chevron/operations/documents/motor-gas-tech-review.pdfEPA regulations limit the sale of gasoline to those with vapor pressures of about 10 to as low as 7 psi, depending on the season and location. Containing even just 7 psi in a gas can is a pretty good trick and most cans cannot stand that much pressure. It is of course only the most volatile fractions that cause the high pressures. |
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Post by jklw77 on May 10, 2018 20:41:32 GMT -5
check pure gas site out ,this is what I had to do to get alcohol free gas the only gas my equipment gets
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