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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 20:04:02 GMT -5
Well after some time in the garage today instead of posting a video of a running C-72 I decided to post one of a flooding out C-72. The video isn't long and I have never really videod myself doing much of anything so its certainly video from a beginner. Anyway that is the best its ever run and I actually had it running much longer I was just busy trying to adjust. In the video I will say that both hi and lo mix screw are all but screwed in closed. After a minute or so of running I can actually feel the fuel mist coming from the back of the carb collecting between my thumb and index finger while operating the throttle. Lol I am about out of ideas and I really think there is not a setting left on the two that I haven't tried. I will say I was successful at getting one of the carbs delivered to the distributor in Tennessee that Tillotson recommended I guess I will see how that works out. I am wondering if the seats on the hi lo screw are damaged or bad. I have never run them in that hard but I have also never seen either saw run either. I do know one of the carbs I have had been taken apart before I got to it and had a new kit in it but it wasn't attached to the saw. Wondering whats the chances of both carbs having that. Anyway I have a few parts coming from Ms Joyce and then I am sure the one carb bill won't be easy to swallow. I will say this once those are paid for I have my eye on a NOS carb (as I am sure at least one here knows where it is too) Hopefully it will be there in the event I need it. www.flickr.com/photos/138659658@N05/shares/201M9M
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Post by dieseltech on Jan 28, 2018 20:44:26 GMT -5
Are you sure the reed isn't damaged? If it were damaged wouldn't that let pulses back into the carb and cause fuel to be blown out the choke? The reed is like a check valve to only allow air flow into the engine and not out
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Post by sweepleader on Jan 28, 2018 20:48:11 GMT -5
From the way it fails to accelerate, I would say the idle is too lean.
Try setting the high speed to where it is a little richer than fastest lean setting. That is, make the most speed you can by leaning the high speed screw, then back it out to where it just starts to flutter or "4 stroke". You want to get rich, away from that max high speed lean, quickly. Engine damage can happen pretty fast at those speeds and lean mixtures but you need to know where that setting is so you can go rich from there.
Then adjust the idle mix to idle well and pull the throttle wide. If it dies or does not accelerate well, richen the idle some. If it won't idle after you get the high speed set, turn up the idle speed stop till it will idle, might be pretty fast. Then leaving the high speed screw alone, slow the idle a little at a time and adjust for best speed with the idle mixture screw. Repeat lowering and adjusting till the idle is where it belongs and the chain stops turning.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 20:48:45 GMT -5
Well you are missing the carb deflector that goes in front of the carb, that might send more of that mist back into the carb
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Post by dieseltech on Jan 28, 2018 20:50:58 GMT -5
Worst case you could ship me a carb & I could bolt it on my C7 & see how it runs
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 20:55:11 GMT -5
Well you are missing the carb deflector that goes in front of the carb, that might send more of that mist back into the carb Yea I have it I just didn't put it back on. It's back on now but hasn't made a difference. I had it where it accelerated great but then it takes a while to idle back down. I am new to adjusting the hi lo screws, I was always taught "DO NOT TOUCH THAT". I have been successful though on my now 3 super XLs and my XL 12. This one is kicking my rear though. I am still thinking its something wrong with the carb that I have missed because I have adjusted just about every possible combo there is but I will keep trying.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 20:57:16 GMT -5
Worst case you could ship me a carb & I could bolt it on my C7 & see how it runs Thanks for the offer and I will most certainly put that on the list of options...I am quickly running out of those. Once I get my carb back from the tillotson distributor I will know more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:00:53 GMT -5
I'm no carb expert, but on my small tractor engines it does take a little time after adjusting to realize the change
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:01:22 GMT -5
Are you sure the reed isn't damaged? If it were damaged wouldn't that let pulses back into the carb and cause fuel to be blown out the choke? The reed is like a check valve to only allow air flow into the engine and not out All I have is a small rectangle plastic spacer in the intake throat. There is a flange there too, right above the intake at the base of the throat but its fixed position and very rigid. I will run get a pic of it real quick but there is nothing there that would open and close on either of my C-72s
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:04:10 GMT -5
Really!!!! LMAO I grabbed the second throat off of the C-72 I haven't touched as far as attempting to get it to run and there is a perfectly good reed there. Now that I've had my shower for the night I HAVE to go take the other off and see if its in that throat. Its about the only think I haven't swapped.....and nope perfectly good reed in there too from what I can tell. One does seem to take a little tiny bit more pressure to open than the other but I guess the only way to really inspect that would be to drill those rivets out and removed that flange.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:20:27 GMT -5
Really!!!! LMAO I grabbed the second throat off of the C-72 I haven't touched as far as attempting to get it to run and there is a perfectly good reed there. Now that I've had my shower for the night I HAVE to go take the other off and see if its in that throat. Its about the only think I haven't swapped.....and nope perfectly good reed in there too from what I can tell. One does seem to take a little tiny bit more pressure to open than the other but I guess the only way to really inspect that would be to drill those rivets out and removed that flange. I didn't see any rivets in the IPL
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:23:02 GMT -5
Yea the rivets are what holds the flange in place below the reed. Likely not ever meant to be changed or removed but it would be possible
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:30:59 GMT -5
www.flickr.com/photos/138659658@N05/shares/44o95Ncan't really see it too well but I have the reed open with my finger there. The rivets wouldn't be that hard to remove and replace to visually inspect it but I could probably pressure test it if I made a plate for it...tomorrow....at work. :-D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 21:42:23 GMT -5
Yeah the manual only shows the elbow as one piece
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Post by 5terrysupersaws on Jan 28, 2018 22:52:12 GMT -5
There appears to be a chip in the reed seat (right where your finger is) that may be preventing the reed from sealing,to test fill with fluid and see if it leaks out the other side.
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Post by onlyhomelites on Jan 28, 2018 22:57:18 GMT -5
I've lost rack of everything you have done on this saw...does it have new crankshaft seals? It takes a long time to come down to idle and that indicates a possible air leak to me. You may be fighting more than one issue, which makes it a much bigger pain in the a$$!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 23:08:58 GMT -5
I've lost rack of everything you have done on this saw...does it have new crankshaft seals? It takes a long time to come down to idle and that indicates a possible air leak to me. You may be fighting more than one issue, which makes it a much bigger pain in the a$$! I've been down that road before and even created other issues on top of the original issues. The problem often requires using Hickam's Dictum, not all ailments delineate from one cause, than Occam's Razor, all ailments originate from one cause. I'm fighting that right now trying get my doctor to understand that my thumb/wrist/hand problem is not attributed to just one cause when it should be obvious that comorbidity exists just by the different locations and symptoms.
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Post by jerseyhighlander on Jan 29, 2018 2:44:00 GMT -5
That reed seat could probably use a little gentle cleaning up but make sure there isn't any crud under it at the point where it's mounted. Looks like a bunch of crud between the reed and the backer plate. And of course, yet another gasket to check.
I feel like the low side adjustment may be too open but you said they're practically fully closed? One of my best friends in the shop for years now is a good magnifying glass. Take those needles out and look close at the needle end where it should seat. Make sure they aren't worn out and take a look inside and make sure the seats aren't worn out or worse that some fool before you didn't take a drill to them trying to hot rod the saw.
Also, make sure the throttle plate/butterfly is moving very freely. It should snap closed instantly when you let go. Sometimes when you clean the carb really well, you take all the lubrication out from between the pin that it's hinged on and the carb body. I always put a drop of light oil back in both ends after I clean it. Same on the choke side.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 6:11:41 GMT -5
I've lost rack of everything you have done on this saw...does it have new crankshaft seals? It takes a long time to come down to idle and that indicates a possible air leak to me. You may be fighting more than one issue, which makes it a much bigger pain in the a$$! Yea there pretty much isn’t anything I haven’t done. It has new crank seals and bearings, new rod rollers, new piston rings, new cylinder gasket, all three gaskets under the reed valve are new, (one under the carburetor neck then one on each side of the spacer between cylinder and carb housing or air box) new coil wire and new to saw coil, new points and condenser, new recoil spring, new fuel lines and filter and new kit in carb. I think that’s it. Now it isn’t flooding in the video but if I open the needles much more than about 1/4 to 1/2 turn it then floods and both were nearly closed if not closed at the time I took that pic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 6:15:06 GMT -5
The thing is outside of the coil which gave me spark no other parts change has made a difference, flooding has been the problem ever since I got it to start the first time. I think it’s the reason it was put down I remember when I cleaned it up after first getting it out that the idle speed screw was turned almost all the way in to where the spring was collapsed all the way. I think I am going to make a plate today to go ahead and pressure and vacuum check the crankcase. I just need a plate to cover the intake where the carb bolts up correct? Any instruction on that would help
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