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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 13:59:07 GMT -5
I got the flywheel off by use a small wedge and lightly tapping underneath the flywheel, took about 30 times tapping and rotating, but it popped off and looked good. I cant tell if the points look bad or are worn and of course cant tell about the condenser or coil without testing. Man this saw is dirty, sorry about the mess, but I was hoping someone could see the contact points well enough to make an appraisal and ask how to test the coil or condenser. I already have the condensor and points so I will probably change them anyway, I just wanted to see if I could test the coil or on/off switch. Thanks 20171217_123838 by Al Michaels, on Flickr 20171217_123834 by Al Michaels, on Flickr 20171217_123744 by Al Michaels, on Flickr 20171217_114830 by Al Michaels, on Flickr 20171217_113922 by Al Michaels, on Flickr 20171217_114822 by Al Michaels, on Flickr 20171217_114822 by Al Michaels, on Flickr
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Post by undee70ss on Dec 17, 2017 14:08:12 GMT -5
They don’t look bad to me. I would just check gap and run it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 14:26:55 GMT -5
They don’t look bad to me. I would just check gap and run it. I had zero spark, that's why I'm down here. I don't think it is the points, could be a condenser or coil. My understanding is the coils don't often go bad. I'm going to scuff the points, reset them and replace the condenser. I'm on the fence about replacing the coil, would really like a a way to test it first.
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Post by undee70ss on Dec 17, 2017 16:10:55 GMT -5
Do you have a OHM meter? You can do the basic tests with one. Be sure to disconnect kill switch to illimitate that. Also check plug wire.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 16:36:30 GMT -5
Do you have a OHM meter? You can do the basic tests with one. Be sure to disconnect kill switch to illimitate that. Also check plug wire. I set the multimeter to 1k Ohm resistance and tested primary circuit by putting the black lead on the iron button that goes across the magnet and the red lead to the wire coming out of the coil and the reading was zero, needle never moved. Next I tested the secondary circuit by keeping the black lead on the button and putting the red lead in the spark plug hole, meter went clear to the right and stayed
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 17, 2017 17:40:05 GMT -5
Condensers can go bad sitting on the shelf, an NOS unit could be bad going in. A quick check with an ohm meter can be made by connecting the leads to the condenser and watching the meter carefully. If the resistance measured reads steady, bad. If it goes up gradually, maybe ok. Switch the leads and watch again a couple of times, you need to be watching quick. This test is at about 1.5 volts from the meter and really should be done at about 500 volts so you can see it is not the greatest test.
You can also buy a capacitor (same thing) tester on line for about $30. It looks like a digital volt ohm meter but will do a radio frequency test on the capacitor, much better test.
You can use the Ohm meter to test the points, should be zero or so with them closed up.
Sounds like you have the right idea about testing the coil, there are two windings in there, both are connected to ground. That would normally be the iron core or a separate ground wire. One lead of the meter to that, the other to the points wire or the plug wire to test each side. Again, this is a low voltage test that really does not test the coil at high enough voltage but it will point out a coil that has no hope. It will not say for sure that the coil will work under load.
Your primary test description would lead me to believe the primary is open. Are you sure the "iron button" you mention is the ground connection for the coil?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 19:04:15 GMT -5
Condensers can go bad sitting on the shelf, an NOS unit could be bad going in. A quick check with an ohm meter can be made by connecting the leads to the condenser and watching the meter carefully. If the resistance measured reads steady, bad. If it goes up gradually, maybe ok. Switch the leads and watch again a couple of times, you need to be watching quick. This test is at about 1.5 volts from the meter and really should be done at about 500 volts so you can see it is not the greatest test. You can also buy a capacitor (same thing) tester on line for about $30. It looks like a digital volt ohm meter but will do a radio frequency test on the capacitor, much better test. You can use the Ohm meter to test the points, should be zero or so with them closed up. Sounds like you have the right idea about testing the coil, there are two windings in there, both are connected to ground. That would normally be the iron core or a separate ground wire. One lead of the meter to that, the other to the points wire or the plug wire to test each side. Again, this is a low voltage test that really does not test the coil at high enough voltage but it will point out a coil that has no hope. It will not say for sure that the coil will work under load. Your primary test description would lead me to believe the primary is open. Are you sure the "iron button" you mention is the ground connection for the coil? The iron button is circled in red. Is there a Phelon or Standard magneto cross reference for this coil? 20171217_114830 by Al Michaels, on Flickr
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 17, 2017 19:16:24 GMT -5
The iron button you refer to then would be the core of the transformer. It will be grounded to the metal of the saw and SHOULD be grounded to both windings in the coil/transformer. If the spark wire is grounded there, the primary winding/points wire should be too. There might be another ground wire, short and directly attached to a screw. The chassis of the saw with brackets and whatever is the ground path to the points, which they are also screwed to. If you get no continuity to ground from the points wire, with the switch and points disconnected, just the coil, then the coil primary winding is bad. In the two pictures above that show the points and the end of the condenser, it looks like there may be two wires coming from the coil and going to a screw at the condenser. Upper left of the pics. If one of those is broken, it might be the problem. I am not familiar with the exact layout of these inside the flywheel systems. They work the same way electrically but are layed out differently. Check for continuity of both wires through the coil to either the primary (points) coil or the secondary (spark) coil.
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Post by dieseltech on Dec 17, 2017 20:18:21 GMT -5
back when we had point ignition on cars we would charge up a condensor by holding it by the wire and grounding the case. pull a plug wire and letting it arc to the condensor wire. a good condensor would hold a charge for quite a while. either charge it and throw it to someone or charge it and put it in a vise.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 23:19:20 GMT -5
back when we had point ignition on cars we would charge up a condensor by holding it by the wire and grounding the case. pull a plug wire and letting it arc to the condensor wire. a good condensor would hold a charge for quite a while. either charge it and throw it to someone or charge it and put it in a vise. I have a new condenser, should I install it and then test the coil? Thanks
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 18, 2017 8:35:23 GMT -5
The coil tests should be run first. The condenser and points should be disconnected from the coil when you test it, it doesn't matter at that point if they work or not. Each component should be disconnected when you test it.
You can test the entire system with 12 volts if you are quick. Connect everything like it is supposed to be electrically with the points closed. Turn the crank to close them. Then connect 12v across the points and flick the points open. Do it quick, only a few seconds of 12v or you can burn up stuff. You should get a spark at the plug wire if all is well. Will not tell you what is wrong if no spark. It will tell you that there could be a problem with the magnets in the wheel if you get spark this way but not with everything connected normally and the engine cranked with the rope.
You can also connect an external coil to the points and condenser in the engine and run it with external 12v. The engine can be run this way if the points and condenser are good. That method will tell you if all but the coil is well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 18:47:51 GMT -5
I bought a new coil, and when it arrives I'm going to install it along with the new points and condenser and move on. I'm sure I will have spark and a long lasting saw after that. I'm debating on attempting a partial paint job while I have it down, but I really don't want to go over board a then wont want to use the saw, sound familiar?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 19:32:13 GMT -5
The new coil comes with two wires a white and black, the black is longer than the white wire and apparently they can only hook back up like the original wire. The original ground wire was grounded through a screw near the condenser and was bare wire, this one is slightly larger and insulated, but won't reach to where the black wire hooks to the points condenser post. My next problem is how to remove and install the new module to the iron core. Is it epoxied on? and will I have to epoxy it back on?
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