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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 21:18:24 GMT -5
Well after getting the coil and plug wire all taken care of and saw put back together, went to start it and it ran for a second or two and died. Kinda did that several times and realized it was flooded bad. I have put a kit in this carburetor and there is a possibility I did something wrong. I happened to have another one so I swapped carbs and it doesn’t get fuel at all. I am going to take them apart again tomorrow and try and compare the one I rebuilt to the one I didn’t and make sure I didn’t get some diaphragms backwards or something but I am open to suggestions at this point. The carb is an HL 141D Tillotson
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Post by tjthechainsawmech on Dec 2, 2017 0:26:23 GMT -5
Flooding out is a number of things....needle not seating....metering lever set wrong(to high mainly)....metering lever spring weak....or if that carb has a metering lever that hooks onto the diaphragm it may have slipped out or you possibly forgot to slide that in....diaphragm spacer gasket on the top instead of the bottom of the diaphragm. Some things to check out. Make sure that seat is clean to so the needle seals well against it. If you don't have a pressure tester you can try and blow air through the fuel inlet to make sure it holds pressure.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 6:47:55 GMT -5
I am going to start with the metering lever because I didn’t know anything about setting it, didn’t know it needed setting. I found a service manual on Tillotson website so maybe that’s it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 8:11:38 GMT -5
Which in reading about this I am finding more about a reed valve. I know nothing about one. I know when I took mine off it seems there is a little rectangle block in there that moves about behind two holes. Is that anything to be concerned with?
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 2, 2017 8:30:43 GMT -5
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Post by lesorubcheek on Dec 2, 2017 10:00:25 GMT -5
Yea, the C5/7 saws, and later 9s used a single reed that's part of the intake manifold. The reed itself isn't identified as a separate part. Dan  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 17:19:16 GMT -5
I believe the lever was part of the problem it did need setting. Then I found a big hole in the screen under the bottom cover which wasn’t in the kit so I robbed one from another carburetor I had. It got a little better but still flooded. I believe my mistake was I didn’t change the needle seat but I did change the needle then I proceeded to throw the new seat away...smart huh. Anyway I am going to order a new kit. I did however take that part of the other carb and put the new kit in it leaving the original seat and needle in it. It has a different seat, the lever doesn’t connect to it, just rests on top of it and the needle appears to be plastic. It doesn’t flood now but only runs for about 5 seconds and dies. I see air bubbles in the fuel line so that may be my trouble there
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Post by dieseltech on Dec 2, 2017 21:26:15 GMT -5
check the gasket under the strainer. My C51 wouldn't pump fuel either. The gasket was misshapened and allowing air to be sucked in instead of fuel. New gasket from Leon starts first or second pull
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 9:33:09 GMT -5
It appears there are different variations of the RK-88HL kit. One has the metering lever with the fork that attaches to the needle. The other has the metering lever that just sits on top of the needle and includes the screen under the bottom cover
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Post by tjthechainsawmech on Dec 3, 2017 10:31:34 GMT -5
You are correct; I believe you can use either of them as long as you adjust the lever to the right height. I've done it on one of my carbs and will verify when I get the saw running. So far I don't see any reason why it won't work.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 22:10:11 GMT -5
Well got my other new kit in today. Carefully went through the carb while looking at a breakdown on my laptop from Tillotson website. Replace the seat the copper gasket under the seat, removed the Welch plug and made sure that it was clean under it, installed new one, set the metering lever best I could figure how from Tillotson website, pulled the top some and it took a minute to get fuel to pull up to the carb but it finally showed up. Once it finally hit it reved up to about the throttle lock or more and then idled down all the way to dead stop and gas trickles out of the back of the carb.😕🤔. Either I am not setting the metering lever right or I need to find a Tillotson rebuild guy for these carbs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:00:33 GMT -5
Okay got a step further today but ran into something a bit strange. I decided to test compression and I used a bosch tester and came up with 120 lbs of compression which I think is right in line with what it should be but if not someone please correct me. Anyway flooding of course has been my issue and I have done everything to the carb I know to do, which what I know is very little, anyway on to the point. I removed the spark plug to attach the compression tester and found whats in the following pic rolling around the base of the spark plug threads. It was trapped somewhat on the inside but yet able to roll around the ground electrode from side to side. Not sure what it is, it almost looks like a tightly rolled ball of tin foil but its really hard. Got what appears to be a split in the middle. Would love at this point to put the plug back in now that I removed what ever that is and try it but...the wife is pushing to load the kids up and go get Christmas pictures, wouldn't want to delay that, delaying what she wants usually results in being grounded away from saw play time in the garage. flic.kr/p/22ycXeT |
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Post by dieseltech on Dec 16, 2017 10:51:29 GMT -5
with that piece of foil in the spark plug it would short out the spark and possibly cause a flooding condition where you choke it trying to start it. No start keep pulling rope with the choke on causing excessive fuel. I assume that when you checked for spark you left the plug in and used a spark tester on the coil wire.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 11:52:58 GMT -5
Yea I think that it may have been a big part of the problem I just found it odd to find something like that in there. It’s actually a new spark plug I had just installed and had it in and out several times. I don’t know what it could be but whatever it was it seems it was in the jug to start with. I will know more this evening when I try to crank it again. The thing is every time I tried it before it would always crank first and run a few seconds then flood out and die.
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Post by onlyhomelites on Dec 16, 2017 13:52:34 GMT -5
If it looks like aluminum (and it does to me as well), I'd highly recommend doing some more investigating before firing the saw up again. The compression number you listed will run fine, but metal in a cylinder doesn't just appear out of nowhere. I'd pull the muffler and inspect the piston as much as possible, including the top of the piston. See if there are little craters like that ball has been in there a while bouncing around. Check for scoring of any type on the piston wall...any reason for an accumulation of aluminum. If you see nothing there, I'd pull the carb & reed valve assembly and inspect as much of the crankcase as possible. I know this sounds like a PITA, but it beats the hell out of ruining a piston & cylinder!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 14:20:10 GMT -5
If it looks like aluminum (and it does to me as well), I'd highly recommend doing some more investigating before firing the saw up again. The compression number you listed will run fine, but metal in a cylinder doesn't just appear out of nowhere. I'd pull the muffler and inspect the piston as much as possible, including the top of the piston. See if there are little craters like that ball has been in there a while bouncing around. Check for scoring of any type on the piston wall...any reason for an accumulation of aluminum. If you see nothing there, I'd pull the carb & reed valve assembly and inspect as much of the crankcase as possible. I know this sounds like a PITA, but it beats the hell out of ruining a piston & cylinder! No you are exactly right I am going to look inside as much as possible with the muffler and carb off to see if I see anything. I had the muffler off once and looked inside but at that time I was Not aware of any ball of metal bouncing about inside lol. I will look much closer and as far as the carb, as much as I have had it off I can do that blindfolded in my sleep as many times as I have already had it off |
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Post by sweepleader on Dec 16, 2017 14:54:26 GMT -5
Look for metal in the muffler too. Check the top of the piston, around the edge for peening. The top groove might be peened down from that ball between the piston and the top edge of the cylinder/head. That can cause pinching of the top ring, affecting compression and leading to more troubles with scoring.
I have never seen it in a 2 stroke but I have seen where 4 strokes will melt the upper edge of the piston, leaving the upper ring exposed to the combustion chamber. That usually comes from failure of the cooling system leading to hot spots.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 19:24:21 GMT -5
Well I don't know if I am any closer to having a C-72 running but I am closer to knowing why I don't have a C-72 running. Got the two carbs I have back fully assembled both with new kits. Now one doesn't pump at all not sure why and I put it to the side. While taking them apart I remembered what someone had mentioned about the button on the diaphragm that sits on the metering lever. I checked it out and sure enough the new diaphragm's button is taller so I over bent the lever some to compensate. fired it up was able to set the low idle and made some adjustment on the high but when I get close to full throttle she stalls out. worked with it numerous times (enough times for neighbors blocks down the street to come leering out to see what I was disturbing the peace with) but had no luck on the high end. I think I am going to try to file or sand that button down closer to what the original is and try it with the metering lever set correctly. of course this was all done after inspecting the cylinder and piston and I see no damage at all. not sure where that little ball came from stuck om the plug. I am also going to order a champion J6C as I believe that's the correct replacement. it ran some off of a cj8 which is what was in it when I got it and I got an ac delco r43 which is as close as I could get around here.
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Post by undee70ss on Dec 17, 2017 19:40:17 GMT -5
Not sure where that little ball came from stuck om the plug. I am also going to order a champion J6C as I believe that's the correct replacement. it ran some off of a cj8 which is what was in it when I got it and I got an ac delco r43 which is as close as I could get around here. See pic for some possibilities. More info in Homelite Service Manuals that you can download from Leon’s site.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 20:40:01 GMT -5
How do I know which service manual there on Leon's site, is there a particular one I should look for?
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