Aggressive Chain

[RandyMac]

Full chisel is square like a box, to get the most out of it, you need to use a flat file, although decent results can be had with a round file. Chipper has a rounded corner, round files for it.
Filing chains is an art, there are endless variations, depending on many things. Different woods need a little something extra. Once you can get the basic angles right, consistantly, then you can start playing with other angles. Generally for soft wood, more angle, a touch lower rakers, reverse for the harder stuff.
Back when I cut second growth Redwood, I used an "aggressive" chain as the the wood was very soft. Of course my Super 250 had more than enough beans to make it work. Power is a factor when it comes to the faster cutting chains.

[RandyMac]

OldZip
"I guy on AS last year posted that he filed his chains with a file that was 1 size smaller than recommended. This gave him more
'hook' He claimed his chain cut great, but I think that durability of the edge would be an issue."

Typical AS missinformation

The only time I used the next size down, is when the chain is nearly used up. You are correct, more hook means the edge will fail sooner.

[chainsawwhisperer]

I was not trying to spread misinformation, I was merely trying to get clarification on something that did not sound right.
Am I being to sensitive? Who is the misinformant? Me or the
initial poster on AS?
So, am I an informant to the misinformed, or a misinformant to the informed? Now my head hurts.

[lesorubcheek]

Oct 18, 2008 11:24:26 GMT -5 @oldzip said:

Are there variations of these? Hence the 'full' chisel?

I think "full" simply means there's no skipped cutters. Look here at www.madsens1.com/bnc%20sequence.htmat this link on Madsen's site. I think it explains this pretty good.

Dan

[RandyMac]

CSW, let RBW kick you somewhere, that will take your attention off the headache.

O.Z.
There were several types of bits during the development of saw chain, everybody had their own thoughts on what cut best. Now, we are left with two basic types, excluding specialized chain like carbide or safety chain for the FNG's. Chisel has a variant, semi-chisel, it has a small rounded corner, easier to file, not as fast, somewhat more durable. Chisel is meant for high speed cutting, on clean, green wood, it will lose it's edge fast on gritty wood. Chipper may not be as fast cutting, but it is far more forgiving and works very well with our vintage chainsaws.
Do you know the first rule in chain sharpening?

[angel]

How come saws don't use chipper chain anymore, all we have is semi-chisel.

[chainsawwhisperer]

Randy, what's the rule about sharpening?

[MCS]

So there are rules associated with chain sharping Oh boy! If I don't follow the rules, what will happen I hope there aren't too many to memorize.

[chainsawwhisperer]

I am now so confused I don't know who I am or what I wanted in the first place Confusedsawwhisperer

[RandyMac]

Let's keep on the subject, the "confusion" should not continue to be an issue.

Don't make me smack you.

The first rule is "put on your gloves"

[lesorubcheek]

That's a great rule RM. Even a dull chain is pretty sharp on the hide! I was figuring you were gonna say the first rule of shrpening was "just do it". Dull chains are bad news for the whole saw. It pays to keep a chain sharp and can save alot of dough when you learn how to do it yourself.

Dan

[woodplayer]

I think that if you want a really fast chain there will always be the trade off of dulling quicker.
I tend to use the semi chisel type chains for dirty cutting and chisel for clean. I have just picked up some square ground chisel that I will be trying out shortly.

For either the round filed semi chisel or round filed chisel, my understanding is that to make it cut quicker (again will depend on type of wood you are cutting) some of the things you can do include:

1. increase the top plate angle ( say from 25 to 30 or 35 degrees),
2. tilt the file slightly upward (compared to a flat position)
3. using a slightly smaller file or try dropping the file lower into the cutter (effectively decreasing the side plate angle, or making a hook)

These will all make the cutter edge smaller/slimmer and the chain may cut faster.

Also ensuring that the gullet area is cleaned out will help with chip removal and a chain cutter that has been filed back may help. (imagine the cutter filed back to about 1/3 of the life of the cutter).

Cleaning the chain before filing as well as cleaning the file occasionally during use may also help.

Most of the other forums have sections on race chain etc. however the following link gives some basic details on race chain
www.madsens1.com/pdf/RacingTechfacts_93099.pdf

I may be going out on a limb here, but I have a feeling that the older slower running torque saws could have the depth gauges slightly lowered and with a square filed chisel on a new high reving peaky saw, it may actually help to keep the depth gauges a little higher.

Square filed chisel is filed from the outside of the cutter to the inside which also does not leave a bur on the outside plate. I'm not sure if doing this would help with round filed chain.

The only experience I have with chains ground with a grinder, is on new factory chains, however I do know that if I use a bar mounted chain filer the chain can be made much sharper than the factory grind, using the same angle etc. It seems the file is a finer grind than a grinder.

I modified a bar mounted filer to accomodate a square file which I will be trying once I make some cuts with the new square ground chain I just got.

It took me a long time to duplicate the factory grind angles (I tried a little filing on a couple links of the new chain), and now that I have the approximate settings it will still take much longer than filing with a round file.

Here's a photo of factory grind and my bar mounted filer. Unfortunately I don't have any machining tools, so I was stuck using only my drill press and sander to build the aluminum holder pieces.

[chainsawwhisperer]

I have been round filing my full chisel chains for quite some time
with very good results. But I suppose that the next step is learning how to square file, to take advantage of the chains full potential.
Woody, Thanks for the race chain link, It was very informative.
RM, Funny how something that seem so commonsense, get forgotten sometimes. Most of the time I sharpen in the garage or at work, and never think to put on gloves. 2 weekends ago I had to sharpen in the field, and already had gloves on. I was amazed at how much easier it seemed and how I did not nick up my fingers or knuckles.
So, What would step two be? Make sure the chain is tight?
If you would list off everything in steps I'm sure everyone could benefit
Like I said I know how to file, but I have never been taught,
just kind of figured it out. So I know that there are things that I can learn. CSW

[RandyMac]

Rule#2
Have a good working position, whether you are in the field or in the shop. It's tough to be consistant, if your work wobbles around.

[chainsawwhisperer]

There's some talk over 'there' about the Atop filing system.
It sounds intresting, but doesen't it do the same thing as a bar mounted filing system?
Can you buy bar mounted square file guide? Or do you have to modify one for a round file? CSW
It's acually called the Vallorbe Racing Cut System.

[woodplayer]

Randymac has a very good point, that is actually the foundation for getting a decent sharpening. Keeping things from moving around in order to maintain consistency.

In the bush I use a small vice that can be pounded into a log to hold the saw by the bar. Works pretty good. For the round filed chain I just use the Oregon file holder to maintain the file depth and top plate angle. Unless I have alot of time I do the same thing at home but use a vice fastened to the workbench to hold the saw. Tighten the chain and use the chain break to help keep things from moving too much while filing.

Once in a while the bar mounted filer is used to true up the filing.





CSW, not sure about the ATOP things, I would have to see one in person and try it before commenting on how they work.

[RandyMac]

I guess we should spend some time on files. You get what you pay for, don't fret about paying $ for files, with proper care a good file will last a long time. Keep them from rusting, clean them with a brass or bronze wire brush. When they start losing their bite, a quick soak in acetic acid will bring back most of the bite. Remember to get a proper handle, it will help with keeping a firm grip on it and keep that rat tail from poking holes in your palm.
Oh yeah, hide your saw chain files, other folks seem to think they are used for enlarging holes in things.

[mikevan]

I cut some dead standing locust the other day - A sharp chisel chain almost bounced off of it - Years ago, with a dull chipper chain, I might of had to leave it behind!

[chainsawwhisperer]

I have to take down a locust at my parents house, Is it good for firewood? Being as hard as it is I would assume so. Does it smell
ok when it burns?

[mikevan]

It's one of the best woods for heat there is. The honey locust has huge thorns on it, the black has small ones on the small branches. The old timers said locust would last 2 years longer than stone! It doesn't have a lot of smell to it, good or bad.