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Post by edju1958 on Apr 6, 2022 20:55:20 GMT -5
I bought this XL-113 back in the winter & went through it.It needed a new fuel line & filter & I rebuilt the carb.There were some other minor things missing like bar plates,but I had those on hand.Today was my first time out cutting for the season & I took the XL-113 as one of my saws.The 1st time out it was idling way too fast,of course in my haste I forgot to take a screwdriver.I got home around 3:00,had lunch,& made the carb adjustment,it was running quite well.I went back to the site & started the saw without issue until I went to put it to wood.Then the saw acted like it had a bad plug,or the condenser was breaking down.I do recall the saw had a CJ8 in it & it's supposed to have a CJ6,IIRC.I'll try a new plug tomorrow & see if that cures the ignition problem.If not I'll have to go in deeper.
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Post by edju1958 on Apr 11, 2022 15:26:44 GMT -5
I popped the flywheel off the 113 today to see what was going on with the points & condenser.I was right about the condenser...somewhat.The condenser came loose from it's bracket,they'e soldered in the bracket.I don't have any soldering equipment & I've got a new condenser ordered from Feebay anyway.And because the condenser was loose in there,I believe it caused the points to get burnt.
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Apr 11, 2022 15:59:35 GMT -5
You probably found your 113 problem with the condenser.
Just a hint about soldering the condenser back to the bracket.
1ST probably not worth the effort.
2nd If the condenser itself is ok inside solder heat may ruin it. They are really wimpy/weak built inside Them type condensers are made with several layers of wrapped tin foil with wax between the layers as the insulator and heat melts wax. Some of them type condensers have a little metal band for friction fit around them for mounting and also acts as a ground. , so as no heat or spot welding required for the metal condenser case grounding.
3rd If I were going to solder I would think about soldering a #16 or #18 small stranded wire to the bracket first, then then tin the other end of the stranded wire with solder and take a file or knife blade and polish the side of the condenser or the end of the condenser and I have a soldering iron that produces heat fast and quick as the solder melts and sticks/flows to the condenser case apply the tinned wire and then cool it down fast with a damp rag. Point is get heat on then off as soon as possible AND soldering to the wire will take less heat than trying to solder the condenser case to the bracket.
4th. I've actually re-located a condenser outside the flywheel attached to the kill switch wire and held anchored down with the little band bracket I mentioned. You can also do a temporary test run doing such when you do not have a OEM condenser with the proper bracket to fit back under the flywheel.
5th I've also seen quite a few of them little Champion CJ6 thru 8 have some really weird running issues. One of the first things I do is replace them with a know good one as a test. Really makes a guy feel weak upstairs after several days and hours later and lots of flogging of the machine then find it was just a bad easily replaceable measly CHAMPION spark plug.
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Post by edju1958 on Apr 17, 2022 14:58:23 GMT -5
I bought a NOS condenser on Feebay from a pretty good seller,but he has no way of tersting it.I should get it by tomorrow.Meanwhile,I could've sworn that I had a used condenser that came out of my 103 last summer on my workbench.Well lo & behold,while looking for a totally different part I found that condenser.I put it on the saw earlier & have no spark.
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Apr 17, 2022 20:28:26 GMT -5
I bought a NOS condenser on Feebay from a pretty good seller,but he has no way of tersting it.I should get it by tomorrow.Meanwhile,I could've sworn that I had a used condenser that came out of my 103 last summer on my workbench.Well lo & behold,while looking for a totally different part I found that condenser.I put it on the saw earlier & have no spark. Murphy's law struck again. I have to watch out for that Murphy also. At least it needed the condenser due to the bad grounding bracket. No spark at all. Might think about the following while testing for spark. 1st check with a new spark plug gapped at .030 and not in bright light (shade or dark room) and the plug grounded good. disconnect the kill switch wire. A condenser usually will not completely kill a spark unless the condenser is shorted. A open condenser or no condenser will usually just result in a weak spark. I would make sure that the points are clean and in good shape and I also test the points with a ohmmeter to make sure of ZERO resistance when they close. I'm not sure of the exact ohms of your coil but basically the primary wire (which is the one going to the points should read 10 ohms or less to case ground when the points are open and the kill switch is in on or disconnected, and the secondary wire (spark plug wire) should read around 5-7000 ohms to ground and to the primary points wire. |
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Post by edju1958 on Apr 18, 2022 8:11:07 GMT -5
I did all of the above except test the coil.The saw was running previous to the condenser problem,so I'd think the coil is good.The original condensers in these saws are 50+ yrs.old.Even if the saws were serviced 5 yrs.after being produced the condensers are still at least 45 yrs.old.I should probably put a chip in the saw to test the coil,although I have an ohms meter.Something I don't understand though - almost all the other coils need an air gap of .012-.015,but the coils on the XL-100 series saws need an air gap of .004-.008.Something else I don't understand is why people refuse to admit that condensers go bad.Coils can go bad,but much more rare than a condenser going bad.
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okie
Saw Builder
Posts: 199
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Post by okie on Apr 18, 2022 9:02:21 GMT -5
I did all of the above except test the coil.The saw was running previous to the condenser problem,so I'd think the coil is good.The original condensers in these saws are 50+ yrs.old.Even if the saws were serviced 5 yrs.after being produced the condensers are still at least 45 yrs.old.I should probably put a chip in the saw to test the coil,although I have an ohms meter.Something I don't understand though - almost all the other coils need an air gap of .012-.015,but the coils on the XL-100 series saws need an air gap of .004-.008.Something else I don't understand is why people refuse to admit that condensers go bad.Coils can go bad,but much more rare than a condenser going bad. I seen that where you mentioned it was running before you found the condenser bracket broken. This is why I mentioned the points. sometimes disturbing old points will make them go towards Murphy's law. Also right about the measley condenser. Even worse when a condenser becomes erratic/intermittent. I've seen equipment try to run with a bad condenser, Auto's, lawn tractors, especially the old Onans, and few chainsaws, jerking and jumping up and down, hit and miss. .Peel the metal off of a auto or chainsaw condenser and look inside. It will make you wonder how they even last until the outside armor shell is added. I've got electronic condenser and capacitor testers but I do not trust a condenser tester, especially when one indicate good and the equipment is running ragged, best to do a sub test. Few years ago I had a bad habit of installing new points and just leave the old condenser in place. That came back to bite me big time way back in the mountains on a deer hunt, the 4x4 went down and before cell phone days. I had new set of points in the glove box, installed and no go, changed the several year old condenser that I had not been replacing as a last ditch effort before starting long walk out and it was the condenser. I've also seen magneto coils check ok using a magneto spark tester but fail when put to a running load. If you have a chip that would be a good test.Patience is your friend when flogging stuff. |
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Post by edju1958 on Apr 18, 2022 19:09:54 GMT -5
Back a few yrs.ago I bought a digital condenser tester & it was a complete waste of money.It shows how many Mfd it's supposed to have,or be putting out,BUT it doesn't tell you if the condenser is leaking or not! I'd need a sophisticated tester like the old Mercon to be able to tell if the condenser is any good.I buy condensers for the most part from Bob Johnson in Maryland,N.Y.& he has a similar tester that he uses to test condensers & coils before he sells them.He has to throw away many to get a good one sometimes. That being said,I bought some condensers from a "trusted" seller on Feebay.I got one for the 113 which is an OEM Homelite condenser for $4.However,I bought two 63250 condensers (or were supposed to be) & I know they're not OEM as they were supposed to be.A couple of yrs.ago I was buying no name condensers from a guy in Tx.They had no writing or numbers on the bottom & had a black wire.This seller that I just bought the condensers from put them in a FWM box & they were the same as the ones I bought from the guy in Tx.,no writing or numbers on the bottom & a black wire.If these condensers turn out bad like the ones I bought from Tx.were bad (about a 75% failure rate),I'll be doing some serious biotching.It doesn't matter how much work I need to go through to put the condenser in,test it,pull it out & do the same to the other.I went the Feebay route because old Bob had a case of the shingles & his shop was closed.
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Post by edju1958 on Apr 21, 2022 15:57:18 GMT -5
The 113 is a runner once again! I got around to lubing tyhe felt for the points cam,put the flywheel on & checked for spark.It had big blue spark,almost scary,Lol.I fueled the saw & pulled & got nothing.I pulled the plug & it was wet,not firing.Triedcanother plug & no spark.I knew the switch was good because it'd been working just fine.I pulled the wire off the switch & covered the end with electrical tape,put the recoil back on & it fired up.I pulled the recoil off again & inspected the wire & it seemed fine,but just to be on the safe side I wrapped the wire with electrical tape,put it back together & the saw fired up on the 1st pull.YeeHaw!
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