Super ez auto not idiling

[Deleted]

This is my first post on HoH.  I recently acquired a 1983 Super EZ Auto.  I replaced the fuel filter and line.  I also did a carb kit and used the correct gaskets according to Leon's videos.  The problem is the saw will not idle.  The saw will only start at wot.  Once started I can slowly release the throttle trigger until it is almost at idle. When I let go of the throttle trigger it dies immediately.  The idle screw is all the way in.  I can start the saw with decompression valve open or closed.  Before the carb kit I ran the carb through an ultra sonic cleaner with water and dish detergent.  I'm not sure what I should do next.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  

[edju1958]

What are your hi & lo needles set at?You might need to set the lo at 1 turn out from seating to start,then turn it in about 1/8 turn.You can do this one more time throttling it up in between adjustments.It should help.

[Deleted]

Screws were set one turn out. Adjusting the low speed doesn't seem to do anything.

[okie]

That is not a uncommon problem with the EZ's.
You will have a good go to strong saw saw when you get all correct so stay calm.

Several different little things will cause the no idle.
If you can see a UT and/or ser number post it so as we can look at a IPL.

Couple questions:
Do you have a pressure/vacuum tester?
Do you have another EZ that runs/idles ok? (one that has a good donor carb)

Things I would check first assuming you have no special tools.
First install a properly gapped new spark plug. (sometimes you have to take a 5/8 12 point 3/8 drive deep socket and grind it too proper length and then grind two flats on each side for a small crescent just to remove the spark plug without breaking it due to the restriction of the access due to the handle. Usually they are a champion DJ6J but could be 7 or 8. Be sure the gap is not too close. Set gap at .020-.025. might be a R (resistor) series if electronic ignition. Them little Champion plugs can cause all kinds of run issues so do not overlook a bad plug.
Look at the 4 jug to block 1/2 inch nuts. If you can move one of them 1/4 to 1/8 turn tighter the jug to black gasket may be leaking. If you can move one of them tighter get back to us and we will tell you how to mod a special wrench for tightening.
Normally you would use a 5 lb pressure tester to test for block leak)

Next if no carb to sub look on this site on how to test a Walbro HDC carb check valve.
You can do this test using just your mouth and a small hose. Sometimes running the HDC through a HEATED USonic will actually ruin a old check valve, causing it too leak both directions, seems the heat softens the valve flapper too much, but it was about to go bad anyway.

[Deleted]

The UT is 10505B serial number is 4E1390035. I do not have an extra carb and I do not have a pressure/vacuum tester. I tested the check valve and it works as it should. I was able to grind an open end wrench and tighten 3 of the 4 block nuts, I cannot get the bottom clutch side nut. I also have a new plug with a proper gap. I started the saw again and same problem.

[Deleted]

I got the final nut tightened, started the saw but it will not idle. Thanks for your help tree cred. I'll buy a mighty vac and see what I find.

[okie]

Let us know when you get the mityvac. (assuming you are going for a pressure vac test on the block?)

Just few more hints:
You can make your block off plates for the carb and muffler. I just use a rubberized gasket material and aluminum sign material and large flat washers with a hose barb tapped into one of the plates. Sometimes you may have to double the plates to get a seal.
Use soap when looking for the seep/leak and do not apply over 5lbs air. It will be normal for the compression release pintle valve to leak quite a bit even when you are holding it closed tight with your finger pressure. Do not be concerned about the pintle leaking. (because it's on top of the compression stroke and not upsetting the idle)

If you found the 4 jug stud nuts very loose check carefully for a air leak around the gasket with your mityvac and soap. Sometimes they won't reseal after it's been run seeping. Not a biggie to install another gasket if you find it seeping, just takes some time.
The crank seals don't leak very often, but do removed the flywheel and the clutch so as you can soap the seals while rotating the crank when testing. I've carefully replaced the seals with the crank in place. The clutch side seal is the one to be more aware of for seepage. Use a braided rope in the spark plug hole when removing the clutch and be careful if you do not have the clutch wrench, it's a left hand thread, CW to loosen and if not careful you will break a ear off the clutch. If you do not find a major seep, it's the HDC carb, most likely. On them carbs keep a heads up and look carefully at the pump button and the new needle. some of them are just close but not correct and therefore the metering lever will not be correct and cannot be adjusted correctly.
Also make sure the Two clutch cover 5/16 head screws are good and tight when going back, if one comes loose it will eat a hole in the aluminum clutch cover housing before you notice such. (how do I know this one)
About your mityvac: I install a red or white fuel filter in the tubing when doing vac because the pump will sometimes suck little piece of carbon into the pump. Do not panic if this happens. If your pump is the rebuildable type just carefully take it apart and clean under the rubber flapper check valves and back into service, usually W/O needing the rebuild kit.

Welcome to the site.

Later.

[Deleted]

I got the mityvac and attempted a pressure test. I didn't see any bubbles from the crank seals or gasket area. The air seeped out the decompression valve slowly and I think I had an accurate test. I also did a vacuum test and found I was losing vacuum at the same rate as the pressure test.

[okie]

I suspect you need a carb. I've seen them little carbs do that. Seen a guy on this site few weeks ago fighting a EZ for several weeks, carb kitted and back apart several times and turned out was the carb.
Check the carb to intake gasket. sure sounds like a air leak or the little check valve in the carb.

I bought a nice Walbro HDC carb from guy on flea bay few days ago for $16. It might need a kit, have not tested it on a saw yet. I try to keep a know good spare EZ carb for my EZ testing due to what you are fighting.
You do have to eliminate a block air leak using a pressure test when you get into your description. You will find lots more uses for the Mityvac. I have a big tackle box full of adapters and hoses for my mityvac and chainsaw block off plates. I use mine on automotive work also.

I see a Walbro HDC over on flea bay with a 30 day warranty. (The guy does say it may need a kit. 143952767154 @ $31 total. I try to stay away from flea bay used carbs that I can see the screw slots wollered out and rats been chewing on the metal from Bubba flogging them..

I would probably go back and use the mity vacuum and test the little check valve, the input pop off pressure per the Homie Walbro test procedure and look at the Walbro HDC idle passages per their site. (use the tests procedure that tells you how to close the jets and apply pressure thn slowly open each jet during each test, etc)

Stay calm, those are good saws when they get right and worth the extra effort.

I have some EZ's that are 40 years old and get used yearly and still good runners and will last another 40 with just little TLC. Long term storage in a building that gets really hot is mainly what does them in.

[blythkd]

I breezed through this kinda quickly, but I didn't see the tip to check for the correct main carb diaphragm. If I'm reading this correctly, the saw is loading up on fuel. From the first post, the idle adj screw is all the way in but when the throttle is slowly released it dies. So it's loading up? I noticed mention of a carb kit and checking for the correct gaskets, which I'm assuming is mostly about the circuit plate gasket since kits usually contain 2 of those. But are we sure we didn't get one of those main diaphragms with the center button that's too tall?

[okie]

Here is a link to the HDC recommended procedure for thoroughly testing a HDC carb at the bottom of this post.
Also pay attention to what blythkd is hinting about the pump diaphragm. I've seen those in a Walbro kit not even match what is in the carb and I've also seen slight differences in the length of the needles. Putting either of these into a HDC will upset the carb. Also if you have never seen that carb/saw run ok before, someone may have already installed the wrong parts previously and did not get a good run and you inherited their problem, therefore just matching parts is not always the answer on these little Walbros.
Some of the repair kits are just slightly wrong which is in the same category as just a little bit pregnant.


Look at this link for the HDC testing.

houseofhomelite.proboards.com/thread/10216/homelite-procedure-carburetor-pressure-testing

[Deleted]

The carb appears to be solid. It holds pressure extremely well. I did notice some damage on the screw drive head of the lo speed screw. I think somebody forced it in hard at some point. I attached a picture.  Otherwise maybe something got stuck in a little channel inside the carb. There was a fair amount of tiny dirt particles inside the carb when I first opened it. The first thing I did was run it through the ultra sonic and blew it out with some air.

[okie]

Just some thoughts from your pic's, etc:
Yep, that pic you posted is what I watch out for on carbs, someone else has been flogging it, screws heads wollered and like you say those jets have been forced hard enough to distort the screw slots. sure signs of someone that did not know what they were doing.
I'm not saying the carb is bad, just not good signs and really suspect.

Did you go through ALL of the test procedures using your mityvac doing ALL the step by step test procedures from the link I posted?

If the saw is not flooding it's seems to indicate that the low idle JET is either clogged up or the check valve is not back checking.

Is the H jet anywhere close to 1 turn out and does the saw sound correct when running at fast throttle or is it loading up running too rich and flooding or what???
Can you make out where the H jet wants to be set for a smoother run at High throttle?
One thing on the EZ's when they are acting like that. Do not let it set on concrete or a hard surface at WOT. It really hammers them (the block) due to vib's.

Things we know:

A good hint is the L JET setting does not change anything.
The saw block has no vac/pressure leaks.
If the high speed sounds clean not likely ignition such as bad condenser.
Saw starts good if throttle is on fast. Seems to rule out any kind of compression issues. (or ignition issues)
Not a symptom to me of any reed valve issues.
Back to the idle ckt of the carb again.
I've seen those exact symptoms on those carbs when the block holds pressure and vac and it's normal for the compression release pintle valve on the EZ's to leak somewhat when pressure testing.

Maybe someone else will chime in for some ideas??

[edju1958]

FWIW,it might not be a bad idea to get another used carb from Feebay or Chainsawr (if they have one available).Seems to me that you're beating a dead horse with that original carb.What's the worst that can happen,you'll be out $25?If the needles were indeed overtightened the seat(s) are now ruined.

[Deleted]

Thanks for your help okie. I'm going to buy a carb on ebay. If you were wondering, the saw runs rich with hi one turn out and clears up around 3/4 out. Please keep in mind this is my first time going through these specific procedures. My only other experience is with a C-5 I got at local auction for $10. That saw only needed a carb kit and fuel lines and was very easy to tune.

[okie]

Feb 20, 2021 13:12:28 GMT -5 erch said:

Thanks for your help okie. I'm going to buy a carb on ebay. If you were wondering, the saw runs rich with hi one turn out and clears up around 3/4 out. Please keep in mind this is my first time going through these specific procedures. My only other experience is with a C-5 I got at local auction for $10. That saw only needed a carb kit and fuel lines and was very easy to tune.

Yes, I realize such and I've already walked in your shoes on them EZ's test procedures.
 You are doing good. Next thing you know you will most likely see a chainsaw at a garage sale or in the trash and be repairing them faster than you have room to store them and the next one or this one will be lots easier to repair.

Just stay calm, they are well built saws, just compact and little harder to get to stuff, but they were made to last long time.
Lots of stuff now days is not made to be repaired and lots not worth the effort to repair.

[Deleted]

I got the replacement carb and installed the new kit. However, the replacements' pressure drops to zero with both hi and lo closed and the diaphragm depressed. I think this means that the hi speed needle isn't closing all the way. I hope I'm wrong and there is an easy solution.

[okie]

You can place the carb under water and see where the bubbles come from with both jets closed when you press the diaphragm. Do not force the H jet.

Check to make sure the jets are not reversed. (they are not the same)

Also on all the HDC's that I have tested opening the low jet did not get a pressure drop, only the H jet caused the pressure drop and the carbs worked good when test run on a EZ.

[Deleted]

I switched the needles and got the same result. I also tried the needles from the old carb and got the same result. I removed the metering side cover and diaphragm and put the carb under water and saw bubbles coming slowly from the what I think is the pulse hole. There were bubbles coming from the pump side gasket, but that's normal.

[xl130]

That usually indicates a warped cover, damaged or unaligned diaphragm pump or possibly just dirt. If you still have the other carb try swapping the covers and try a pressure test under water. If still bubbles try a diaphragm, them gasket. It will be one of those things.