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Post by 2stroked on Apr 9, 2016 18:00:35 GMT -5
Hello!. I have recently acquired an old model Homelite saw. The original bar and chain were gone, but that's not a problem, as I had one that fit.
I am in the process if rebuilding this unit, as it was only pieces in a box when I got it. I changed the rings, all gaskets, the reed and rebuilt the carb. I don't even know if it runs yet, as U have hit a wall, si to speak. I can't get the clutch bell on in the correct manner, so it will spin free without spinning the crank. I have tried several different combinations of washer, and the bearing washer thing.
I don't know what model it is, but it is all aluminum, with an aluminum handle, no brake a Tillotson carb, and a plastic breather cover. It is a manual oiler, and is the original Homey orange. The only numbers I can find are as follows:
LOT # C7122
UT # 104453
Any info that anyone could provide would be very much appreciated.
I love that there is a forum dedicated to these older machines, I love the older two stroke saws.
EDIT: I forgot to measure the stroke before fitting the jug, but the bore is 47mm. Again thank to any and all who can help.
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Post by undee70ss on Apr 9, 2016 20:16:09 GMT -5
What you have is a Homelite XL12. It is mostly made of magnesium, not aluminum. Do you have a IPL (illustrated parts List)?
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Post by undee70ss on Apr 9, 2016 20:26:28 GMT -5
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 9, 2016 20:54:47 GMT -5
Thank.
No, don't have an IPL, yet. I do have a Homelite shop manual that covers the XL12 models.
Got the clutch figured out, but can't get it to suck fuel. I even tried a different Tillotson carb, that was in a running engine, all to no avail.
I am going to strip it down again, and make sure all the cylinder gaskets are still good. Also, I have a longer (+2mn) con rod, that I plan on swapping in at a later date. I already made a 2mn aluminum spacer for the jug.
As U can see from the name, I LOVE a 2t engine. A little time, and a few small files, and u can unlock a lot more power. Thinking if going to a custom one ring piston as well. I discovered that a piston from a 2t scooter, can be made to fit by cutting the skirt. If I go that route, I will be sure the cut is PERFECT. Hell, the bore, and piston pins are the same, maybe a Frankenstein saw with a minarelli type jug, a Mikuni carb and V Force reeds??? lol!! That would be a BEAST dangerous, but fun too.
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Post by onlyhomelites on Apr 9, 2016 23:04:52 GMT -5
Welcome to HOH! Common causes of no fuel (that you haven't spoken about eliminating):
Fuel cap duckbill valve shot
Broken reed valve
Soft fuel hose that collapses under suction
Bad crankshaft seals (gotta be pretty shot to not start at all)
Keep us posted!
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Post by riseandrun on Apr 10, 2016 8:05:38 GMT -5
Welcome 2stroked!
As onlyhomelites mentioned: Fuel cap duckbill valve shot. I messed with my XL12 on and off FOREVER until I asked for help and got that suggestion. It started so easy afterwards that I was amazed. Chalk it all up to the learning experience....
I hope you will post pictures and descriptions as you go should you create a "Frankenstein saw"
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 10, 2016 8:50:30 GMT -5
Thanks for all the ideas guys.
The fuel line is new Tygon, the filter is new, the vented cap looks to be working.
I can get it to run, if I use a gravity feed to the carb, but that's the only way. Doing that, it runs through the revs fine, sounds strong too.
I don't know that i will go ahead with the " mutated saw from hell" Frankenstein build, but I do have most of the pieces. I have a 40 mm and a 47 mm Mina jug, pistons for both, an extra 17 mm carb and a cin rod, that's just a + 2 mm " stroker " compared to stock.
The part of the build that's making me face palm, is the reed valve and intake. Minarelli engines are case Redd valve induction, and the XL is a piston port induction engine.
What's a duck bill valve?? I am getting ready to check the base gasket, and check the ring gap? I have it tore down enough to see the base gasket, and it seems to be saturated with fuel mix. That can't be right.
I have a couple of older Homelite Weed Eaters, a straight and a curved shaft. They both look identical to an old Jonsered that I have, the big red has a plastic carb the Homeys have metal.
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 10, 2016 9:40:38 GMT -5
Is there a way to tell the year of my saw?? A friend of mine just brought me another identical saw, in even worse shape. This one has no sticker, and I can't find the serial number for either.
They both use Phelon flywheel, and coil with a points system.
I absolutely LOVE the sound and smell of an old 2t engine, any type. These old saws IMO are such a better quality product. I have had old Homeues, and new ones, the old ones have always outlasted the newer ones.
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 10, 2016 10:51:07 GMT -5
well, not piston ported over se, but mounting a Mikuni type carb will be a challenge to say the least.
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 10, 2016 12:36:21 GMT -5
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 10, 2016 13:45:09 GMT -5
thank.
I thought that both had a Phelon ignition system, but one is a Wisco, the flywheel is quite a bit different. The coils looked a bit alike, but I did notice several differences.
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 10, 2016 13:54:56 GMT -5
Thank-you sweepleader, my saw is the orange model in the picat tthe bottom. I have four bars that will fit from 14" - 20". I plan on going with the 18" bar and chain. I have owned one similar to this before with a 20" bar, that machine was a BEAST. He never met a log he couldn't handle, including a walnut with a 2foot trunk, and a similar sized cherry. I loved that saw, I owned him for eight years, never did I pull the rope without him starting. I was burglarized a couple of years ago, and he was among my losses.
That is why I am chopping at the bit to get this one running. 3.3 cu, no wonder it was such a work horse, especially compared to the newer saws available.
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 10, 2016 18:17:16 GMT -5
I have several Super XL Automatic Oilers that are quite similar, they are my favorites. Of course, I started with a Homelite XL500 long ago so there is the reason for my feelings. I still have that one, I use it for my avitar. The two ignition systems Wico and Phelon are not compatible. Rotor and coil do not work with the other system. There are also a couple of different solid state systems that were used after 1982 or so, which are also not compatible with each other or the points systems. When in good order they all work well. Your pictures did not come through. I use Photobucket.com, load the pics to that website, click on the "IMG" tag to the right, paste in the message here and I get:  If you change or delete your photobucket account, this site will loose the pics. There are several differences from your XL12 you can see in this picture. The oil tank, the handle bar, hand guard, and bracket, muffler, ID tag, air cleaner cover (plastic/metal). It also has electronic ignition and a few more cc's which are harder to see. |
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Post by Supercharged86 on Apr 10, 2016 19:14:03 GMT -5
I agree Dan. UT104453 comes back to XL-12 originally equipped with a 16" PT (power-tip) bar. This combination and UT # last produced in 1986 (according to a list I have). Steve |
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 10, 2016 19:48:07 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the great info guys!!
I was basically playing around earlier, and attempted a mock up of the Frankenstein, but I will need to remove the cylinder studs, build a spacer plate and bolt it to the crankcase, then bolt the jug and head to that. Add to that a con rod long enough to give the piston a full travel, and watch out!!!!
If that proves to be too much of a PITA, I was also thinking of boreing the stock jug, to a 50mm bore, Since the ports seem to have flat roofs and floors, an over bore wouldn't change the port timings. A stock 90cc two stroke piston from almost any Chinese ATV, or scooter will be 50mm. As I said earlier, modding the scooter pistons should be an easy fix, the piston from the Minarelli is ported, but the height of the piston from the top of those windows, is the same as a Homey piston.
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 11, 2016 7:23:22 GMT -5
The Homelite cylinders are all chrome lined, what do you do about that if you bore it?
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 11, 2016 8:53:53 GMT -5
I figured I would send it out to be NikaSil lined. A nickle and ceramic material that's rather hard and very heat resistant.
But still a good point, wonder if there is a larger cylinder with the same stud spacing???
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Post by undee70ss on Apr 11, 2016 12:43:33 GMT -5
Another issue is balance. Anytime one uses non factory spec rotating assembly parts, this will make it out of balance. The counter weights on the crankshaft are matched to the weight of the piston and rod assembly. If out of balance, and with the rpms chainsaws turn at, vibration would be severe. You would have to have it all rebalanced.
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Post by 2stroked on Apr 11, 2016 14:54:00 GMT -5
Another issue is balance. Anytime one uses non factory spec rotating assembly parts, this will make it out of balance. The counter weights on the crankshaft are matched to the weight of the piston and rod assembly. If out of balance, and with the rpms chainsaws turn at, vibration would be severe. You would have to have it all rebalanced. That is a good point, I know a local power sports dealer that can balance cranks from RC cars, and motorcycles. I would think that he should be able to balance this crank. By the time I pay for NikaSil and a rebalance, I may as well just look for a bigger engine for a saw. I was bitten by the 2t tuning bug a while ago, and now I look for ways to boost performance of all of my 2t engines. My string trimmer is also a Homey but, it has a boost bottle, aggressive porting, and a lightened piston.I am in the process of designing an expansion chamber for the trimmer, based on my Technigas pipe for me 72cc scooter engine. That scooter has been GPS verified at 48mph. I just live modding two strokes. |
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Post by sweepleader on Apr 11, 2016 18:57:22 GMT -5
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